Convert Question - Catechumens vs. Candidates

[InternetWoman]

In the RCIA the Church distinguishes between those who are not Baptized (catechumens) and those who are (candidates). Accompanying those distinctions is the assumption that catechumens need more instruction (being much less familiar with the Christian faith). What I’d like to know from Converts is the following:

Do you think the assumption is valid? Since there are some Christian faiths that do not believe baptism is necessary, could it not be there are very well informed Christians who are not baptized? And given the poor state of instruction is it not possible to have a Candidate who has little to no background in the faith?

Also - did your RCIA program make much of a distinction? And did that distinction bother you? Were candidates and catechumens taught together? And if not, I’d love to hear how the separate was handled and how you felt about it.

Thank you in advance for all those who take the time to answer. I’m trying to make sure the RCIA program in my parish is welcoming and meets the needs of all (well I can dream!).

 

[JamestheOlder]

This may not fit your request, but I’ll give you a distillation of twenty years of work in RCIA:

It may not be wise to create two separate groups, nor is it normally necessary.

That being said, remember there are separate Rites, and it has a positive effect on the Parish to celebrate those Rites separately, even on separate days (only if possible; diocesan Rites of Reception at the beginning of Lent are usually combination Rites).

As an example, at a small parish we had two Methodists in the RCIA sessions, both baptized. The man was conversant with Church history and teachings; he had taught Sunday School at his church. The lady was emotionally attached to her church, but was not a “reader”, and required much instruction about the Early Church, Sacramental history, etc. Eight years later, the man is in formation for the permanent diaconate. The lady is a sometimes participant in weekend Mass, more infrequent now that her daughter received her First Communion.

Every person, catechumen or candidate, who approaches the Church is different. I wish I had time to give you examples, all the way from mentally challenged folk to former Baptist and Lutheran ministers. Every one has his/her own story, and that includes the path they followed, stumbled upon. or were sent down, to become RCIA participants.

We developed a two-page questionaire to be filled out by each person. The information was quite personal, including marriage status and previous marriages so we could work out marriage tribunal situations. To keep things private, we asked each person to interview with a member of clergy and discuss their answers to the questions. The RCIA team then took advice from the clerics about potential situations where we might need to focus on individual needs. In one case I can remember, the Pastor took on one candidate all by himself, outside of RCIA. As a long-time organist at the Parish, the Pastor thought he needed “special” treatment. It made ’some” sense, because the organist already was accepted as a “member” of the Parish community.

So, to answer your original question……there are great benefits to including all candidates and catechumens in group sessions, particularly for the purpose of community building. After about two months of sessions, near the end of November, you will assign sponsors to everyone. If you have trained your sponsors properly, they will take over part of the “individualized” instruction, and coach you and the RCIA team on subject matter which needs to be covered, maybe to be covered again in specifics.

But, please do not lose sight of two elements: the Rites should be separated, and every person in RCIA has different backgrounds, different needs, different views, and different personalities.

And finally, please remember there is only one TEACHER, the Holy Spirit. We are His helpers, sometimes even His mouthpieces. The North American Forum on the Catechumenate (I highly recommend their training courses) had a saying….I may botch it: “The Spirit works as He wills.” Not always according to “our” plans, but always according to His plans.
Bless you for taking on this most important work!

Jim

 

[Marie5890]

In the RCIA the Church distinguishes between those who are not Baptized (catechumens) and those who are (candidates). Accompanying those distinctions is the assumption that catechumens need more instruction (being much less familiar with the Christian faith). What I’d like to know from Converts is the following:

Do you think the assumption is valid? Since there are some Christian faiths that do not believe baptism is necessary, could it not be there are very well informed Christians who are not baptized? And given the poor state of instruction is it not possible to have a Candidate who has little to no background in the faith?

Also - did your RCIA program make much of a distinction? And did that distinction bother you? Were candidates and catechumens taught together? And if not, I’d love to hear how the separate was handled and how you felt about it.

Thank you in advance for all those who take the time to answer. I’m trying to make sure the RCIA program in my parish is welcoming and meets the needs of all (well I can dream!).

Yes, my parish does make the distinction between the two, but they are taught together in RCIA and according to the different rites they go thru “Rite of Welcoming” for candidates and Rite of Election for the catechumens.

Do we find that there is an difference in levels of understanding of the Christian faith between the two? That really depends on the individuals in question. We had a candidate who was baptized Catholic as infact but never really exposed to what it ment to be a Christian. She barely knew the story of Christ.

I do think it’s important to keep the distinction, because it gives a needed emphasis on the importance of baptism.

 

[puzzleannie]

part of the problem when this topic is discussed comes from confusing the RCIA process, the rites themselves, including the initiation sacraments and immediate preparation for those rites, with the doctrinal instruction that is also a necessary component of preparation for reception into the Church and into life as a Catholic.

First OP says the distinction between catechumen and candidate is not only about baptismal status–which it is–but also about how much instruction they need. No, the RCIA process and rites, and those of us involved in RCIA do NOT necessarily assume the average catechumen needs more, deeper or longer instruction than a baptized candidate. In fact, the opposite may often be true. A deeply committed Christian of a denomination that has a particularly strong anti-Catholic bias and tradition may have a much more difficult time with some aspects of Catholic doctrine, and need much longer to come to terms with doubts as he struggles to relate what he has been taught to what Catholics teach, because they may be so much in opposition. We have had non-Catholic candidates who take literally years to fully accept doctrine on the Eucharist, Mary, Saints, confession, the sacramental economy, papal authority and such issues, to the point where they can make a full profession of faith.

A catechumen who has very little knowledge of Christianity or Catholicism but has asked for instruction is usually much more open and receptive because they do not have so much to overcome. With them there is often more difficulty with conversion of mind and heart in the moral aspect of life.

These are all generalizations, and quite frankly, I cannot predict based on the intial interview process with me, the deacon and usually the priest, who will take longer.

For this reason we welcome inquirers year-round and a new formal doctrine class begins 3 times a year. A baptized Catholic, well instructed, who has made first communion, is attending Mass, confessing regularly etc. and who needs confirmation to get married in the Church may need only a couple of months, but will wait until the scheduled confirmation date. Many become so interested that they elect to take the full one-year catechism class or further bible studies.

Some baptized Catholics however are such in name only, have never had formal faith formation, come from families where the faith is not practiced, have a troubled history that includes a great need for moral conversion, including sometimes resolution of marriage issues, and has so many questions they need much more than a year to come to sacraments with a ready heart.

so short answer to OP–yes there are good reasons for every adult seeking faith formation to be in the same class, since it takes the same relative time to present the key topics even mature Catholics need to learn. But the timing of rites and sacraments is another thing entirely and is much more individual.

 

[InternetWoman]

But the timing of rites and sacraments is another thing entirely and is much more individual.

Interesting approach. My current parish is much more “lock step” in the offering of rites. We are getting a new pastor. I will explore the concept of more individualized timing for rites.

BTW - I’ve been doing RCIA for over 25 years. I’m just exploring how other folks approach it.

Thanks for the good (name removed by moderator)uts!

 

[novusCatholic]

Also - did your RCIA program make much of a distinction? And did that distinction bother you? Were candidates and catechumens taught together? And if not, I’d love to hear how the separate was handled and how you felt about it.

Our RCIA class was a mix of candidates and catechumens. We went through it all together, and there really wasn’t much distinction between the two groups except when necessary. For example, during the Rite of Election and Call to Continuing Conversion (think I got that right), those who had already been baptized placed their certificates in a book while the ones who had not signed another book. That’s the only difference that I can think of until Easter Vigil when some had to be baptized. To be honest, early on, I felt like I wasn’t getting credit for already being a baptized and practicing Christian (of the Protestant persuasion), but I got over it.

Because our class was a mix, I don’t think that our time was as productive as it could have been. I was attending RCIA for some meat. I wanted to hear the details about Catholicism and why the Church believed what it did, but we barely scratched the surface with most topics and some that I felt were important were hardly touched upon. I wanted to hear why the Catholic Church is different. I think that too much time was spent on topics like seeing God in nature. It just seemed too “dumbed down”. Most of what I learned was on my own.

I don’t mean to sound harsh. I appreciated the RCIA team’s efforts, and I understand that resources were limited. It would be difficult to plan a program for a group of people who are at varying stages of their faith.

 

[puzzleannie]

Interesting approach. My current parish is much more “lock step” in the offering of rites. We are getting a new pastor. I will explore the concept of more individualized timing for rites.

BTW - I’ve been doing RCIA for over 25 years. I’m just exploring how other folks approach it.

Thanks for the good (name removed by moderator)uts!

each parish does what they can do with the resources of time, space, and people they have, and most importantly, what meets the needs of most candidates. The RCIA allows for a wide diversity.

 

[PJM]

=InternetWoman;8035544]In the RCIA the Church distinguishes between those who are not Baptized (catechumens) and those who are (candidates). Accompanying those distinctions is the assumption that catechumens need more instruction (being much less familiar with the Christian faith). What I’d like to know from Converts is the following:

Do you think the assumption is valid? Since there are some Christian faiths that do not believe baptism is necessary, could it not be there are very well informed Christians who are not baptized? And given the poor state of instruction is it not possible to have a Candidate who has little to no background in the faith?

Also - did your RCIA program make much of a distinction? And did that distinction bother you? Were candidates and catechumens taught together? And if not, I’d love to hear how the separate was handled and how you felt about it.

Thank you in advance for all those who take the time to answer. I’m trying to make sure the RCIA program in my parish is welcoming and meets the needs of all (well I can dream!).

Actually from personal experience [RCIA 3 years as teacher] and teaching our catholic Faith 20+ years. BOTH are exposed to the same training and instruction. The difference is in the various rites of acceptance.

It is not HOW much ones knows; BUT How much one knows CORRECTLY about what we believe and why that is the real issue.

One with little or NO background is “easier” to teach than someone who has been taught incorrectly or holding positions opposed to the CC. It’s an issue of Being taught verses retaught.

God Bless,
Let me know if I can be of futher assiastance?

Pat