Converting the dying - not always prudent?

[Dolezal]

A few years ago I had a discussion with a Benedictine father. My view was that we should try to convert everyone, but his view was that this is not always prudent. To make his point, the father told me of his time in the Dutch military fighting the Indonesians. He said that, after battles, the Dutch priests would give the last rites to dying Catholic soldiers, and assist others in various ways, but they did not try to convert dying Muslims. I was in my early twenties when he told me this, so I thought I knew better and flatly disagreed. It seemed incompatible to me with our mission to spread the Gospel.

But now, I am beginning to see his point. My grandmother is a Jehovah’s Witness and she does not have very long to live, but she is mentally fully intact. It does not seem prudent that I should try to convert her, because it is not likely that someone, especially someone in old age, so near to their death would convert. At best it seems she would be made to doubt her own faith. At worst she would be made to consciously oppose the Catholic faith. It seems more profitable to pray for her soul, to leave her in ignorance, and let her be at peace with God.

What is the right moral action? What does the Church teach us to do in such scenarios?

 

[devoutchristian]

the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men

 

[sanctabellator]

The truth of christ can only be beneficial.

 

[kkollwitz]

The Good Thief did ok I think.

 

[Anne1964]

My mother converted at 86 and I was thrilled for her. Granted, she did attend Mass with my father for years, but at the time of her conversion she had not been in a Catholic Church in over 30 years.

Her health took a turn for the worse last year and she has been in a long, slow decline. My spiritual director suggested I speak to her about the faith and much to my surprise she was interested. We discussed religion for six months before she made her decision.

In her case, as she had never been baptized, she was freed from 86 years of sin all at once. I call that pretty amazing.

 

[jmcrae]

A few years ago I had a discussion with a Benedictine father. My view was that we should try to convert everyone, but his view was that this is not always prudent. To make his point, the father told me of his time in the Dutch military fighting the Indonesians. He said that, after battles, the Dutch priests would give the last rites to dying Catholic soldiers, and assist others in various ways, but they did not try to convert dying Muslims. I was in my early twenties when he told me this, so I thought I knew better and flatly disagreed. It seemed incompatible to me with our mission to spread the Gospel.

But now, I am beginning to see his point. My grandmother is a Jehovah’s Witness and she does not have very long to live, but she is mentally fully intact. It does not seem prudent that I should try to convert her, because it is not likely that someone, especially someone in old age, so near to their death would convert. At best it seems she would be made to doubt her own faith. At worst she would be made to consciously oppose the Catholic faith. It seems more profitable to pray for her soul, to leave her in ignorance, and let her be at peace with God.

What is the right moral action? What does the Church teach us to do in such scenarios?

I think that if this has not been an ongoing conversation throughout the person’s life between you and that person, it would be very odd indeed to bring it up right out of the blue on someone’s death bed - and you’re right; it’s far more likely to result in confusion and/or rejection than acceptance.

Does she have spiritual support from her JW community?

I would be there for her, and let her know that I was praying for her in my own way, but I wouldn’t try to talk her into becoming a Catholic.

 

[devoutchristian]

I wouldn’t try to talk her into becoming a Catholic.

the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men

 

[jmcrae]

the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men

In a way that reasonably will work, and not cause hostility against the Church, either on the part of the person being evangelized, or on the part of their relatives and friends, who might see a death-bed conversion attempt as a form of spiritual abuse.

 

[devoutchristian]

the person being evangelized

So instead of doing something that might convert them we should do something that definitely won’t?

their relatives and friends, who might see a death-bed conversion attempt as a form of spiritual abuse.

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks it is.

 

[Dolezal]

I think that if this has not been an ongoing conversation throughout the person’s life between you and that person, it would be very odd indeed to bring it up right out of the blue on someone’s death bed - and you’re right; it’s far more likely to result in confusion and/or rejection than acceptance.

Yes, I have had little contact with my grandmother, having lived in different countries, and because my family is not tight-knit. For fear of the likely outcome, my conscience prevents me from directly trying to convert her. I would fear much more for her soul if her rejection of the Catholic faith becomes explicit. I don’t even know how to begin to convert her. My own conversion to the faith was based on my study of philosophy and history. I simply don’t know how to give reason for our faith to someone who is mostly ignorant of those subjects.

Does she have spiritual support from her JW community?

Yes, and she has been a devout Jehovah’s Witness for most of her live.

I would be there for her, and let her know that I was praying for her in my own way, but I wouldn’t try to talk her into becoming a Catholic.

Currently, that is how I feel.

Originally Posted by the Catechism of the Catholic Church
the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men

Yes, but let’s suppose a scenario in which a conversion attempt will almost certainly result in a conscious rejection of the Catholic faith. The Catechism seems to speak of evangelization in a more general and broad sense.

 

[devoutchristian]

let’s suppose a scenario in which a conversion attempt will almost certainly result in a conscious rejection of the Catholic faith.

So she shouldn’t be evangelized because it might not work? If one of your conditions for evangelizing is that you’re definitely not rejected then you shouldn’t evangelize anyone.

 

[Glacies]

1983 Code of Canon Law, The Obligations and Rights of All the Christian Faithful (Cann. 208-223):

Can. 210 All the Christian faithful must direct their efforts to lead a holy life and to promote the growth of the Church and its continual sanctification, according to their own condition.

Can. 211 All the Christian faithful have the duty and right to work so that the divine message of salvation more and more reaches all people in every age and in every land.

1983 Code of Canon Law, The Obligations and Rights of The Lay Christian Faithful (Cann. 208-223):

Can. 225 §1. Since, like all the Christian faithful, lay persons are designated by God for the apostolate through baptism and confirmation, they are bound by the general obligation and possess the right as individuals, or joined in associations, to work so that the divine message of salvation is made known and accepted by all persons everywhere in the world. This obligation is even more compelling in those circumstances in which only through them can people hear the gospel and know Christ.

§2. According to each one’s own condition, they are also bound by a particular duty to imbue and perfect the order of temporal affairs with the spirit of the gospel and thus to give witness to Christ, especially in carrying out these same affairs and in exercising secular functions.

 

[mangy_dog]

A few years ago I had a discussion with a Benedictine father. My view was that we should try to convert everyone, but his view was that this is not always prudent. To make his point, the father told me of his time in the Dutch military fighting the Indonesians. He said that, after battles, the Dutch priests would give the last rites to dying Catholic soldiers, and assist others in various ways, but they did not try to convert dying Muslims. I was in my early twenties when he told me this, so I thought I knew better and flatly disagreed. It seemed incompatible to me with our mission to spread the Gospel.

But now, I am beginning to see his point. My grandmother is a Jehovah’s Witness and she does not have very long to live, but she is mentally fully intact. It does not seem prudent that I should try to convert her, because it is not likely that someone, especially someone in old age, so near to their death would convert. At best it seems she would be made to doubt her own faith. At worst she would be made to consciously oppose the Catholic faith. It seems more profitable to pray for her soul, to leave her in ignorance, and let her be at peace with God.

What is the right moral action? What does the Church teach us to do in such scenarios?

-Pray the Rosary

-Read the Psalms

-Sing some hymns

When a person is near death, it is not uncommon for them to have visions or [hallucinations if you prefer]. These can be very disturbing and the above three are powerful enough yet passive enough to not disturb the patient.

Don’t get worked up about what she believes or doesn’t believe at the moment near or of death. You do the basic Catholic things really, really well in her presence and God will do the rest.

 

[jmcrae]

So instead of doing something that might convert them we should do something that definitely won’t?

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks it is.

Actually, it does.

Imagine the number of souls lost because of trying to force someone who is in a vulnerable state to convert (regardless of whether you succeed - and how would you know that she had converted freely? What if it was out of fear of death? It would not be an honest conversion, and she would be as bad off as if she had never converted).

To give the appearance of committing a sin is also a sin - it’s called “scandal.”

We are to evangelize, yes - but we should keep our approach friendly, and there should be not only the reality but also the appearance of a free choice in the matter.

 

[jmcrae]

So she shouldn’t be evangelized because it might not work? If one of your conditions for evangelizing is that you’re definitely not rejected then you shouldn’t evangelize anyone.

That’s not what he’s saying. This is a unique situation. Most people, if they reject the Catholic faith, it’s not the last words on their lips as they are dying. They have the option to change their minds.

But when someone is on his or her deathbed, it’s important to be sure that the last thing they say will be a word of love and forgiveness; not a word of rejection.

 

[devoutchristian]

trying to force someone who is in a vulnerable state to convert

Red herring. No one mentioned trying to forcibly convert the dying.

What if it was out of fear of death? It would not be an honest conversion, and she would be as bad off as if she had never converted

Imperfect contrition is sufficient for salvation.

To give the appearance of committing a sin is also a sin - it’s called “scandal.”

Red herring.

 

[aragonjohn1]

A few years ago I had a discussion with a Benedictine father. My view was that we should try to convert everyone, but his view was that this is not always prudent. To make his point, the father told me of his time in the Dutch military fighting the Indonesians. He said that, after battles, the Dutch priests would give the last rites to dying Catholic soldiers, and assist others in various ways, but they did not try to convert dying Muslims. I was in my early twenties when he told me this, so I thought I knew better and flatly disagreed. It seemed incompatible to me with our mission to spread the Gospel.

But now, I am beginning to see his point. My grandmother is a Jehovah’s Witness and she does not have very long to live, but she is mentally fully intact. It does not seem prudent that I should try to convert her, because it is not likely that someone, especially someone in old age, so near to their death would convert. At best it seems she would be made to doubt her own faith. At worst she would be made to consciously oppose the Catholic faith. It seems more profitable to pray for her soul, to leave her in ignorance, and let her be at peace with God.

What is the right moral action? What does the Church teach us to do in such scenarios?

just try to talk about holy God to her
and ask your grandmother to pray for you

God bless