Cooperation with sin or prudential matter?

[angell1]

I have a very close friend from church. next week her daughter is coming to visit her with her boyfriend. they are already cohabitating. my friend is not planning on making them have separate sleeping quarters in her house. she does not agree with what they are doing and is trying to push them to get married but doen’st think that it will make much difference to give them that kind of arrangement because they are already doing it.

I asked her whether or not that was really a good idea and tried to explain that they may not take her seriously if she says one thing but lets them do that. the daughter already has a previous marriage outside the church that she waiting for a divorce from.

I know, it’s not really my business. I only mentioned it because opportunity presented itself and she brought up the subject. I’m obviously not planning on pushing the issue any further, I think that would be stepping out of my boundaries. I think she may just be trying to pick her battles. she really loves God though so I worry about her, she is sometimes confused on what to do, especially when it comes to her daughter.

I know it’s an area with a lot of grey, am I just being scrupulous again? would something like this be cooperation with their sin because she’s giving them an opportunity even though she states her opposition? I think that is something I am still very confused about

 

[Cynical_Realist]

I had a friend whose parents were old school Catholics. This friend had a younger sister who had been co-habitating with her boyfriend where they both lived across the state away from the rest of the family, and YES the young lady had been raised in a devout Catholic family.

Okay so when a wedding for another family member was being planned, my buddy told me that his sister and her boyfriend were told by the parents that they could stay at the parents’ home for the weekend of the wedding that they were all invited to, but they were NOT to share a bedroom or have sex with each other.

According to my buddy, he said his parents told his sister that “we didn’t raise you that way, and if you want to do that in your own home, then that’s your business, and we can’t stop you because you’re an adult. However, in OUR HOME you have to abide by OUR rules, and if you don’t want to do that, then you’ll have to stay at a hotel.”

The young woman and her boyfriend chose to stay at a local hotel.

 

[angell1]

I had a friend whose parents were old school Catholics. This friend had a younger sister who had been co-habitating with her boyfriend where they both lived across the state away from the rest of the family, and YES the young lady had been raised in a devout Catholic family.

Okay so when a wedding for another family member was being planned, my buddy told me that his sister and her boyfriend were told by the parents that they could stay at the parents’ home for the weekend of the wedding that they were all invited to, but they were NOT to share a bedroom or have sex with each other.

According to my buddy, he said his parents told his sister that “we didn’t raise you that way, and if you want to do that in your own home, then that’s your business, and we can’t stop you because you’re an adult. However, in OUR HOME you have to abide by OUR rules, and if you don’t want to do that, then you’ll have to stay at a hotel.”

The young woman and her boyfriend chose to stay at a local hotel.

yes, I understand what you are saying. I’m not really worried about the daughter and her boyfriend, I hardly even know them. that would probably be the approach I would take as well.

I am just concerned for my friend. I just don’t know if she is putting herself in a sinful situation or not. we are very close, which is the only reason I said anything in the first place. not that there’s anymore I can do. it’s not my decision to make and if she really wants to do that, then it’s her choice. I certainly won’t claim to know all the details of the situation, maybe things would take a turn for the worse if she fights it this time, I have no idea. I do know the daughter is pretty difficult to get along with though. I’ve heard her talking to the mother through the phone before, and I don’t like it. but again, not my place to get involved really

 

[Cynical_Realist]

yes, I understand what you are saying. I’m not really worried about the daughter and her boyfriend, I hardly even know them. that would probably be the approach I would take as well.

I am just concerned for my friend. I just don’t know if she is putting herself in a sinful situation or not. we are very close, which is the only reason I said anything in the first place. not that there’s anymore I can do. it’s not my decision to make and if she really wants to do that, then it’s her choice. I certainly won’t claim to know all the details of the situation, maybe things would take a turn for the worse if she fights it this time, I have no idea. I do know the daughter is pretty difficult to get along with though. I’ve heard her talking to the mother through the phone before, and I don’t like it. but again, not my place to get involved really

No offense but I have to wonder why you’re concerned about whether or not your friend is putting herself into a sinful situation. You already acknowledged that it’s not your place and that the daughter whom you barely know is difficult and disrespectful. Are you worried about the salvation of your friend’s soul because you believe that she is enabling sinful behavior?

Okay if that would be the case, then continue praying for her, however I would add this caveat: with all due respect, you do not know the full situation about your friend’s relationship with her daughter. I would suggest that after all these years, your friend has decided (for better or for worse) the best way to handle her adult daughter. It may or may not be in ways that you approve of, but apparently it works for your friend. Like I said, for better or for worse.

I don’t wish to sound disrespectful to you, I honestly don’t. Nonetheless I cannot help thinking back to when I myself had the same worries that you have about how my own family and friends would conduct themselves in their daily lives. Looking back on it, if I had spent that time more constructively by trying to improve MY OWN behaviors and interactions with others, I think I would have grown in a much more positive direction much more quickly than I did.

Sincerely: Peace of the Risen Lord Jesus Christ to You and Your Friend

 

[PaulfromIowa]

You were right the first time that it is none of your business to judge your friend.

 

[angell1]

No offense but I have to wonder why you’re concerned about whether or not your friend is putting herself into a sinful situation. You already acknowledged that it’s not your place and that the daughter whom you barely know is difficult and disrespectful. Are you worried about the salvation of your friend’s soul because you believe that she is enabling sinful behavior?

Okay if that would be the case, then continue praying for her, however I would add this caveat: with all due respect, you do not know the full situation about your friend’s relationship with her daughter. I would suggest that after all these years, your friend has decided (for better or for worse) the best way to handle her adult daughter. It may or may not be in ways that you approve of, but apparently it works for your friend. Like I said, for better or for worse.

I don’t wish to sound disrespectful to you, I honestly don’t. Nonetheless I cannot help thinking back to when I myself had the same worries that you have about how my own family and friends would conduct themselves in their daily lives. Looking back on it, if I had spent that time more constructively by trying to improve MY OWN behaviors and interactions with others, I think I would have grown in a much more positive direction much more quickly than I did.

Sincerely: Peace of the Risen Lord Jesus Christ to You and Your Friend

I worry about the salvation of everyone’s soul, including my own. my original question was, is this more of a prudential matter or really enabling sinful behaviour. I am not even sure, I’m not judging her

 

[angell1]

You were right the first time that it is none of your business to judge your friend.

I’m not judging her. I can’t even figure out if it is a sinful situation for her or not. I still get confused about stuff like that.

 

[Jesus_123]

+It is not “judging” an individual when suspect activities that are clearly sinful . . . in this case involving the open flaunting of the sin of fornication . . . are involved. Our lives as Christian Catholics are not our own . . . but the LORD’S . . . and whatever we do . . . it should be done heartily to the LORD with our love for God and desire to please him our first priority . . . and concern for the immortal souls of those around us our second priority . . .

Pondering on the . . . *very human *. . . subject question of this thread . . . I am reminded of the beautiful portion of Scriptural guidance below . . .

:bible1::“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy **heart *, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the First Commandment. And the Second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other Commandment greater than these.” * - Matthew 12:30-31​

Doctrinely based upon the foundation of the above portion of Sacred :bible1: Scripture . . . as Catholic Christians we are taught that there are three kinds of love imparted to the soul of man by God our Gracious Heavenly Father. . . Who is wholly holy Love Himself and mankind was created in His image . . . *able to love perfectly *. . . before the free will falling from grace through the deliberate transgression (sin) of Adam which cast all of mankind into disordered relationships with both God and spouses and all our fellow men, and the harmony of man’s life in relation to love in all its aspects was tragically destroyed and perverted and cast into grave disorder and the sinful self . . . of man . . . became the center of mankind’s disordered distorted love relationships . . . rather than centering on our LORD and His purpose as the source of life & health, through the true nature and harmony of genuine holy love in all its three (3) aspects.

Doctrinal Teaching on Love:

1. **** Agape - God’s infinite love for mankind and man’s reciprocal love (which falls under the First Commandment as related above) and
2. Philial - love of one’s fellow-man/neighbor and
3. Eros - intimate love exclusively created for relationship between man and woman as spouses** within marriage** . . .

*(both of last fall in the category of the **Second Commandment ***as related above) . . .​

The marvelous God fearing :nun1: Benedictine nuns :nun2: in the European convent . . . through whom **He **graced my soul with a portion of my education . . . have a discipline they both practiced and which was well taught called the . . . Holy Discipline of Detachment . . . Essentially it is that genuine love is a CHOICE . . . not just emotion . . . which emotion can carry us away is all kinds of “not marvelous” directions if not disciplined by God’s Love with caution and reason.

One is to discipline and detach ones **heart ** and emotions from anything . . . *people, places and/or things *. . . that might take precedence over our heart’s first love. . . which should always be God and His Ways . . . and if one’s **first love **IS God . . . *and one’s soul endeavors to stay in prayerful constant communion with **Him ***. . . then healthy well-ordered love for one’s mate/children/fellow man/neighbor, etc. . . . can . . . and will . . . flow and follow . . . *in a wonderfully blest holy orderly fashion *. . . and as the Reverend Mother Emmanuel encouraged all her nuns:

“Leave a little leeway for the graces.
It’s a never-ending affair trying to be good
but never forget
when God orders,
He gives.”

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Blessed Lord+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary+
​

 

[Cynical_Realist]

With all due respect, it sounds as though the daughter has already rejected the morality of the religion she was raised in; her mother has no control over that. If mom sends the daughter and boyfriend to stay elsewhere, then she is enabling the adult daughter to go fornicate in a hotel. If she allows them to stay with her while they have sex, she is basically allowing them to fornicate for free rather than doing it in a hotel. If she allows them to stay with her under the condition that they cannot fornicate in mom’s home, then the daughter and boyfriend will more than likely stay in a hotel and fornicate anyway. This has NOTHING to do with mom’s soul; this has everything to do with the personal choices of a grown woman, whether or not mom or the original poster approves of it.

 

[angell1]

Cynical_Realist:
With all due respect, it sounds as though the daughter has already rejected the morality of the religion she was raised in; her mother has no control over that. If mom sends the daughter and boyfriend to stay elsewhere, then she is enabling the adult daughter to go fornicate in a hotel. If she allows them to stay with her while they have sex, she is basically allowing them to fornicate for free rather than doing it in a hotel. If she allows them to stay with her under the condition that they cannot fornicate in mom’s home, then the daughter and boyfriend will more than likely stay in a hotel and fornicate anyway. This has NOTHING to do with mom’s soul; this has everything to do with the personal choices of a grown woman, whether or not mom or the original poster approves of it.

hmm, that’s a good point. I never really thought of it like that.

by the way, I never felt that you wre being disrespectful in any way, just so you know.

anyways, all of this is pretty hard on the mom. like I said, I think hs is at a point where she is picking her battles. i.e. more willing to try and guide them towards marriage if possible
[/quote]

 

[thistle]

I have a very close friend from church. next week her daughter is coming to visit her with her boyfriend. they are already cohabitating. my friend is not planning on making them have separate sleeping quarters in her house. she does not agree with what they are doing and is trying to push them to get married but doen’st think that it will make much difference to give them that kind of arrangement because they are already doing it.

I asked her whether or not that was really a good idea and tried to explain that they may not take her seriously if she says one thing but lets them do that. the daughter already has a previous marriage outside the church that she waiting for a divorce from.

I know, it’s not really my business. I only mentioned it because opportunity presented itself and she brought up the subject. I’m obviously not planning on pushing the issue any further, I think that would be stepping out of my boundaries. I think she may just be trying to pick her battles. she really loves God though so I worry about her, she is sometimes confused on what to do, especially when it comes to her daughter.

I know it’s an area with a lot of grey, am I just being scrupulous again? would something like this be cooperation with their sin because she’s giving them an opportunity even though she states her opposition? I think that is something I am still very confused about

Frankly, its none of your business and you should stay out of it.