Corpses in Boxes

[Dan_Brown_2]

I am not sure about the USA, but in Europe many Catholic cathedrals have bodies of saints inside them on display. What is the purpose of this action, i have never understood. Isn’t it a bit disrespectful to have a semi-rotten corpse on display, also wouldn’t the souls of the bodies be an bit angry that the church is making money out of this (some churches have a turn-pike on entry)

 

[exoflare]

I am not sure about the USA, but in Europe many Catholic cathedrals have bodies of saints inside them on display. What is the purpose of this action, i have never understood. Isn’t it a bit disrespectful to have a semi-rotten corpse on display, also wouldn’t the souls of the bodies be an bit angry that the church is making money out of this (some churches have a turn-pike on entry)

The only ones I know of that are on display like this, are the bodies of the incorrupt saints… That is, their bodies are not “semi-rotten” to begin with. Through divine intervention their bodies were miraculously preserved.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

I am not sure about the USA, but in Europe many Catholic cathedrals have bodies of saints inside them on display. What is the purpose of this action, i have never understood. Isn’t it a bit disrespectful to have a semi-rotten corpse on display, also wouldn’t the souls of the bodies be an bit angry that the church is making money out of this (some churches have a turn-pike on entry)

Such Catholic shrines as I’ve seen in Europe in fact display saintly relics with MUCH respect and reverence. As far as some kind of charge, it’s also been my experience that many of the old cathedrals of England and the continent - Catholic and non-Catholic - make such a charge to help with upkeep on these centuries-old and hard-to-maintain buildings which are both artistic legacies as well as places of worship.

 

[mercygate]

The only ones I know of that are on display like this, are the bodies of the incorrupt saints… That is, their bodies are not “semi-rotten” to begin with. Through divine intervention their bodies were miraculously preserved.

No. I have seen a jeweled skeleton in Germany (!). This is definitely not something one sees in the U.S. I doubt that it would be seen in England.

That said, the practice relates to the ancient custom of venerating the bones of martyrs. In the Old Testament, the bones of Elisha brought a dead man back to life. So the bones of the saints are revered. Every Catholic church has martyrs’ bones (teensy weensy ones) embedded in the table of the altar. The priest kisses the altar at the beginning and the end of Mass in veneration of them.

As for coin operated turnstiles, that would doubtless be to support the upkeep of the building, which doesn’t come cheap. It would not relate directly to the veneration of the saint whose bones are reposed in the church.

 

[Dan_Brown_2]

Such Catholic shrines as I’ve seen in Europe in fact display saintly relics with MUCH respect and reverence. As far as some kind of charge, it’s also been my experience that many of the old cathedrals of England and the continent - Catholic and non-Catholic - make such a charge to help with upkeep on these centuries-old and hard-to-maintain buildings which are both artistic legacies as well as places of worship.

Where did this activity start, and what were the purposes? I understand the idea of bodies not rotting away due to some devine influence, but it seems a bit disrespectful to have a body on display. The soul is no longer there, it is just a container. I have also noticed people kissing the box, is this some sort of worship?

 

[mercygate]

Where did this activity start, and what were the purposes? I understand the idea of bodies not rotting away due to some devine influence, but it seems a bit disrespectful to have a body on display. The soul is no longer there, it is just a container. I have also noticed people kissing the box, is this some sort of worship?

See posts above.

Worship? When a widow kisses her husband’s coffin, is he worshiping him? No. It is a sign of respect and affection. The Saints are our big brothers and sisters, gone before us. Their holy lives give us an example of life in Christ. We love them.

 

[Dan_Brown_2]

See posts above.

Worship? When a widow kisses her husband’s coffin, is he worshiping him? No. It is a sign of respect and affection. The Saints are our big brothers and sisters, gone before us. Their holy lives give us an example of life in Christ. We love them.

I guess worship can be defined in different ways.
The idea seemed pretty strange to me. I believe that when we die our souls leave our bodies and what is left behind is just matter to waste away. Bodies shouldn’t be worshiped, the people themselves are not here.

I don’t respect my friend’s jeans or 3 piece suit, i respect him.

 

[mercygate]

I guess worship can be defined in different ways.
The idea seemed pretty strange to me. I believe that when we die our souls leave our bodies and what is left behind is just matter to waste away. Bodies shouldn’t be worshiped, the people themselves are not here.

I don’t respect my friend’s jeans or 3 piece suit, i respect him.

In a Catholic definition, worship is not “defined in different ways” but is clearly understood as that degree of reverence reserved to God alone. Coming down the scale, we show respect, love and honor to many among our holy brothers and sisters.

Bodies are not worshiped. But remember Elisha’s bones! And Joseph told his brothers not to leave his bones in Egypt but to take them away with them when they left, so Moses obeyed:

And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him; for Joseph had solemnly sworn the people of Israel, saying, “God will visit you; then you must carrymy bones with you from here.” (Ex 13:19)

Moses surely was not worshiping the bones of Joseph.

 

[Trelow]

I guess worship can be defined in different ways.
The idea seemed pretty strange to me. I believe that when we die our souls leave our bodies and what is left behind is just matter to waste away. Bodies shouldn’t be worshiped, the people themselves are not here.

I don’t respect my friend’s jeans or 3 piece suit, i respect him.

Historically worship always involved a sacrifice. The word has been watered down since the protestant reformation.

 

[Victorious]

I understand the idea of bodies not rotting away due to some devine influence, but it seems a bit disrespectful to have a body on display. The soul is no longer there, it is just a container. I have also noticed people kissing the box, is this some sort of worship?

At the root of your argument lies a contradiction. If a body is a mere container, then how is it possible to disrespect it? If it’s just a pile of decaying stuff, then what does it matter what we do with it?

Resist the urge to flirt with gnosticism. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and will be glorified at the End. They must be treated with respect after death, and there is nothing disrespectful about displaying the relics of a saint, or venerating the same. Veneration is not worship. Veneration of relics goes back to Biblical times (St. Paul’s handkerchiefs) and even back to the Old Testament (Elisha’s bones, as an earlier poster pointed out).

As for kissing the box, there’s nothing idolatrous about that. I kiss my medal of St. Thomas More all the time. Why? Because I can’t kiss him. If he was physically present, I’d run up and kiss him, not the medal. For now, though, the medal is the next best thing. I also kiss the crucifix on my rosary, as a way of expressing love for Him who hung on the Cross. And I kiss my Dominican cross, in part as a way of thanking God for my Domincan vocation, and in part because it gives me comfort.

People who pass judgment on these Catholic practices are really only depriving themselves of a great many consolations they could otherwise have, and indeed were meant to have. As with a nearsighted person who doesn’t wear glasses, life is a lot harder for them than it needs to be, but they don’t realize it because they’re so used to it.

 

[Dan_Brown_2]

At the root of your argument lies a contradiction. If a body is a mere container, then how is it possible to disrespect it? If it’s just a pile of decaying stuff, then what does it matter what we do with it?

Resist the urge to flirt with gnosticism. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and will be glorified at the End. They must be treated with respect after death, and there is nothing disrespectful about displaying the relics of a saint, or venerating the same. Veneration is not worship. Veneration of relics goes back to Biblical times (St. Paul’s handkerchiefs) and even back to the Old Testament (Elisha’s bones, as an earlier poster pointed out)…

When I die I know that I won’t be put on display by the Church, but if I was, I would be very angry. Our souls sometimes have trouble letting go of our physical body. Veneration done by clerics or non-clerics seems like worship to me. But we will have to agree to disagree

 

[wisteria]

When I die I know that I won’t be put on display by the Church, but if I was, I would be very angry.

Anger will not be possible when you are a Saint.

Veneration done by clerics or non-clerics seems like worship to me.

“Seems like” because you’re looking through eyes which are veiled. When you see the beauty of the miracles that come to us through the lives of the saints and their relics, your sensibilities aren’t so shocked. (I was put off by it when I saw it, too - but only because - like you - I didn’t understand. I was raised Protestant and taught to believe that Catholics are idolators. Today, I would gladly kiss each one - they stand in the beatific vision of Eternal God! If the prayers of a righteous living human availeth much, how much more powerful are the prayers of a saint who is eternally alive and in the very presence of Jesus Christ?)

There is a disconnect between Protestant and Catholic terminology sometimes, but think about the answers that you have been given, here, because they are not intended to be tricky or deceitful in any way.

There is a level of respect that is due to God alone, (“worship,” in today’s vocabulary) and there is a level of respect that is given to His creatures who have set holy examples of putting on the mind of Christ.

When we respect and imitate those who have followed Christ right into heaven, we gain a wealth of insight into how to take up our own crosses and follow Him, too. The saints are full of good advice for growing as Christians and walking more closely with our dear Lord.

Peace be with you!

 

[The_Augustinian]

I’m not sure if I’ll be contributing anything new to the discussion, but I think the OP has a problem with the Catholic principle of matter becoming holy. To us Catholics, the body and soul are not totally seperate, like Descartes’ ghost in the machine. Since we believe in the resurrection of the dead, bodies are to be treated with the utmost respect. Relics are such an expression of respect and veneration, and are to be found in nearly every ancient culture and religion. Just because it seems “weird” to your own limited perspective doesn’t make it wrong.

Also, what authority do you have to judge the clergymen who “charge” (usually through donations) to see the blessed remains? Priests need to eat too, and usually these collected monies would go to the poor, or other worthy causes. If I, please God, were enshrined in such a manner, I would be happy that I would be productive even after my death in helping feed the poor or teach the ignorant. And I would be most pleased that people would be following my saintly example (this is just hypothetical!) and venerating my poor bones. Certainly I would be more inclined to pray for them from my place in heaven, than to curse them to the Father. Please keep this in mind.

 

[Victorious]

Our souls sometimes have trouble letting go of our physical body. Veneration done by clerics or non-clerics seems like worship to me. But we will have to agree to disagree

Yes, we may have to agree to disagree. But how do you know our souls have trouble letting go of our physical body?

 

[scylla]

Agreeing to disagreeing is a waste of time, do you believe that it really matters? Is this an evil act that Catholics are doing?

To break it down, if Catholics do pay respect to the remains of others as in the example of Joseph’s bones we do not in any way worship them, since true worship involves sacrifice and the intention of giving what is due to God to God.

Since Catholics expressely deny thinking that these bones are a replacement for God then this postion of thinking it worship is a false accusation, just based on perception.
Not on true Catholic understanding.

Kinda like saying Japanese people are worshipping each other as they bow out of respect. And to deny that would be ignoring the intention of the person doing the deed to mis-characterize their actions.

So you must accept that Catholics are not worshipping the saints or relics, and paying the respect that Catholics do is something you prefer not to do. And the honorable thing to do is, if you hear somebody slandering the Catholics for this practice, to correct them from now on.

In Christ
Scylla