Correct procedure for reporting abuses?

[janeway529]

Let me give some details:

Kyrie: Alright, but I shall still refrain from mentioning it, since I’d rather be sure than accuse unjustly.

Homily: One could debate whether it was a homily… After the Gospel, which the priest read, he went back to his seat and the youth-group-teacher got up and started talking to the congregation and specifically the children about what it means to be “children of God” from the Gospel reading of St John 1. When he had finished, the priest got up and said something to the effect of “thanks for this talk interpreting the Gospel”. To me that sounds like what the homily is supposed to be.

Creed: No, I am referring to today’s Mass, 5 January, the Second Sunday after Christmas. We had a short song that was more similar to the Gloria, and went like this (translated):

And before you suggest this may have been the Gloria, no, we had “Gloria in excelsis Deo” repeated over and over with altar bells ringing constantly for that.

Sing of Peace: The priest specifically instructed us to reach across the aisle and hold our hands. I was very confused, since he launched into the Agnus Dei straight away and everyone wanted to shake hands.

The part about the Creed sounds iffy to me (unless it’s a local custom - for example in India, an entire song actually encompasses the entire Penitential Rite; complete with sitar, btw), but all the others you mentioned aren’t necessarily abuses. As far as I know, lay people are allowed once in a while to give a “reflection” on the Gospel, and considering that you mentioned the priest may have language difficulties, it may have been better to have a reflection than have everyone “sit quietly and meditate on the readings.” For the Sign of Peace, the priest may have meant it figuratively rather than literally, as “reaching across the aisle” is a phrase often used to express the giving of peace. When in doubt, usually its best to give the priest the benefit of the doubt, unless the same thing happens all the time.

 

[CutlerB]

The part about the Creed sounds iffy to me (unless it’s a local custom - for example in India, an entire song actually encompasses the entire Penitential Rite; complete with sitar, btw), but all the others you mentioned aren’t necessarily abuses. As far as I know, lay people are allowed once in a while to give a “reflection” on the Gospel, and considering that you mentioned the priest may have language difficulties, it may have been better to have a reflection than have everyone “sit quietly and meditate on the readings.” For the Sign of Peace, the priest may have meant it figuratively rather than literally, as “reaching across the aisle” is a phrase often used to express the giving of peace. When in doubt, usually its best to give the priest the benefit of the doubt, unless the same thing happens all the time.

The thing is, we are in Germany. We all speak German as out mother tongue. “Reaching across the aisle” was certainly not meant figuratively the way he said and demonstrated it.

Where do you get the bit about the “reflection” from? Canon Law and the GIRM seem quite clear to me about the homily.

We don’t have a local custom as you mentioned for India.

 

[Cat]

Isn’t the state of Catholicism in Germany pretty dismal?

Is it not true that the numbers of practicing Catholics in Germany are lower than low?

Is it not true that religion in general in Germany is not practiced by the majority of people?

I’m not saying that you should ignore true abuses in the Mass.

What I’m saying is that you will be talking to a priest who is probably pretty discouraged about his parish and his diocese and the entire state of Catholicism in Germany.

He’s probably tried doing Mass “by the book” and seen people depart in droves. I’ll bet he’s just trying desperately to hold on to the people he has coming to Mass and not lose anyone else.

In Campus Crusade for Christ, there is a saying: “EARN the right to witness to people.” I think this would be a good way to approach the issue of abuses in your parish.

Make FRIENDS with your parish priest first, without saying one thing critical about his Masses. Be a genuine friend with no ulterior motives.

If you are a man, Invite him out often to dinner or coffee (or for a beer, since you’re in Germany). (If you’re a woman, just give him dinner gift certificates or bring gifts of food to his office.) Praise him for the good things he does. Encourage him constantly. Pray for him constantly, and tell him that you are praying for him . Send him little gifts during the week. Volunteer to help him with any projects or with the Mass if there are tasks that you can do. How about ushering? --you don’t have to be an experienced Catholic to be an usher. Or clean up days–in our parish, we have a group of ladies who dusts and cleans the nave and the sanctuary–you could do this (even if you are a man).

Be a good, loyal friend for a year, and then gently, oh, so gently, ask about those things in the Mass that you perceive as abuses.

If you follow my advice, you will see much better results than if you just make an appointment and ask subtle questions that the priest will immediately see through and understand as “complaints.”

Hals und Beinbruch!

 

[janeway529]

The thing is, we are in Germany. We all speak German as out mother tongue. “Reaching across the aisle” was certainly not meant figuratively the way he said and demonstrated it.

Where do you get the bit about the “reflection” from? Canon Law and the GIRM seem quite clear to me about the homily.

We don’t have a local custom as you mentioned for India.

Hmm…from what I’ve heard, some in Germany are more than willing to adopt certain practices from other countries and turn it into local custom. But this should come from the bishop, not from individual priests, unless he happens to be part of a particular movement (charismatic, etc) or is a religious priest. There is a Canon in which a local custom can be adopted into particular practice if it has been practiced for a certain number of years.

The “reflection” is from an archbishop emeritus from where I live. [LINK]
The rector of the seminary here did send a question to the Congregation for Divine Worship about those in seminary giving a reflection during the homily time, and the response that came back was the standard vague response that Rome was neither for or against the practice. I’ve been to a parish recently where the pastor teaches homiletics at the seminary and a seminarian student of his gave a “reflection” of the readings and the Gospel. Of course, the pastor said some words of introduction before the seminarian began and then afterwards.

 

[CutlerB]

Hmm…from what I’ve heard, some in Germany are more than willing to adopt certain practices from other countries and turn it into local custom. But this should come from the bishop, not from individual priests, unless he happens to be part of a particular movement (charismatic, etc) or is a religious priest. There is a Canon in which a local custom can be adopted into particular practice if it has been practiced for a certain number of years.

I doubt that this applies here. The priest has only been in the parish for about a year.

The “reflection” is from an archbishop emeritus from where I live. [LINK]
The rector of the seminary here did send a question to the Congregation for Divine Worship about those in seminary giving a reflection during the homily time, and the response that came back was the standard vague response that Rome was neither for or against the practice. I’ve been to a parish recently where the pastor teaches homiletics at the seminary and a seminarian student of his gave a “reflection” of the readings and the Gospel. Of course, the pastor said some words of introduction before the seminarian began and then afterwards.

ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur42.htm

Redemptionis Sacramentum and the Codex Iuris Canonici seem to have abrogated any such rule, even for seminarians. Even then, I believe seminarians are an exception. Still, our priests did not say anything before the “reflection” and the only thing he said afterwards was “thank you for interpreting the Gospel”.

 

[Cartesian]

Hmm…from what I’ve heard, some in Germany are more than willing to adopt certain practices from other countries and turn it into local custom. But this should come from the bishop, not from individual priests, unless he happens to be part of a particular movement (charismatic, etc) or is a religious priest. There is a Canon in which a local custom can be adopted into particular practice if it has been practiced for a certain number of years.

The “reflection” is from an archbishop emeritus from where I live. [LINK]
The rector of the seminary here did send a question to the Congregation for Divine Worship about those in seminary giving a reflection during the homily time, and the response that came back was the standard vague response that Rome was neither for or against the practice. I’ve been to a parish recently where the pastor teaches homiletics at the seminary and a seminarian student of his gave a “reflection” of the readings and the Gospel. Of course, the pastor said some words of introduction before the seminarian began and then afterwards.

That’s a quite a curious chat. You can clearly see the difference in questions between the priests and laypeople. Anyway, this question was remarkable for me:

FrBob: Your Eminence, Would you have a word of encouragement/advice for priests who may find themselves becoming discouraged or dispirited in the face of so many conflicting voices in the church? How would you hope the Bishops support their priests?

CardinalMahony: Yes, there is great polarization in our society and among groups in the Church. We must become far more open to seeking common ground in our faith and in living out the Gospels. Priests, especially, get caught in the middle–that is not fair. Priests need to be nourished spiritually as well.

Well, when you had enough of your priests, please send them here to Finland, and they will be received with open arms and no complaints. If there is any problem, we have coffee and cookies after mass, but not before making the priest very welcome. They will be treated like they should: fathers.

 

[janeway529]

I doubt that this applies here. The priest has only been in the parish for about a year.

ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur42.htm

Redemptionis Sacramentum and the Codex Iuris Canonici seem to have abrogated any such rule, even for seminarians. Even then, I believe seminarians are an exception. Still, our priests did not say anything before the “reflection” and the only thing he said afterwards was “thank you for interpreting the Gospel”.

If the priest is a member of a religious order, sometimes they are exempt from certain rules because they must follow the rules of their founder. The Jesuits are an example of this; exceptions are the norm for them because their founder ruled them not to be hindered by structure.

Actually, the question the rector sent to the Congregation of Divine Worship was in regards to Redemptionis Sacramentum and the long-standing practice of seminarians giving “reflections,” so the practice that I witness was from this past 1st Sunday of Advent. The tricky thing about Canon Law is in how its applied. I hope Brother JR can see this thread and comment.

 

[Elizium23]

The thread topic is “Correct procedure for reporting abuses”. Therefore I am going to offer you the correct procedure, as documented in the Latin Church document, [Redemptionis Sacramentum](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...0423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VIII) Chapter VIII: Remedies.

1. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

There is much more in this chapter preceding these two items, so I strongly suggest that you click the link and explore the document. It is the “gold standard” for identifying and reporting abuses in the Church today.