Could an Ancient Form (AF) of the Mass be created by the Church?

[Duesenberg]

I have a great interest in history and the Church. I have often read where the OF Mass is a “break from tradition” yet I’m not really sure that’s the case? Yes, the OF Mass is considerably different than the EF Mass which was first codified in the 16th Century, but that’s over a thousand years after the Apostolic Age. Could it be that the OF Mass is really in many senses, a partial restoration of at least one of the sacrificial liturgies celebrated in the early church – or at least an early form of the Western Church?

Would it be possible for the Church to craft an Ancient Form (AF) of the Mass based on historical and archaeological study of the early church or again, the early form of Western Church? When we talk about liturgical history and tradition in the Western Church, it would really be wonderful to understand it from the beginning – as close to the Last Supper as possible and not from a point many hundreds of years later.

I don’t know that an AF Mass would be practical to celebrate on a regular basis, but I think it would be a magnificent way to not only preserve history, but to teach the faithful about the liturgical history of the Western Church.

 

[R_H_Benson]

Would it be possible for the Church to craft an Ancient Form (AF) of the Mass based on historical and archaeological study of the early church or again, the early form of Western Church? When we talk about liturgical history and tradition in the Western Church, it would really be wonderful to understand it from the beginning – as close to the Last Supper as possible and not from a point many hundreds of years later.

I don’t know that an AF Mass would be practical to celebrate on a regular basis, but I think it would be a magnificent way to not only preserve history, but to teach the faithful about the liturgical history of the Western Church.

I think its an interesting idea, but I am concerned about the bolded statement. While I think there is merit in researching and discovering what a rite of Mass would have looked like in the early Church, it is another thing to actually offer Mass according to that rite. Pope Pius XII warned sternly against “archaeologism” - which is essentially a stripping of the liturgy of the accretions of the Middle Ages and returning to a more simple, more “pure”, more “Apostolic” liturgy. In Mediator Dei, Pope Pius XII says:

“The Church is without question a living organism, and as an organism, in respect of the sacred liturgy also, she grows, matures, develops, adapts and accommodates herself to temporal needs and circumstances, provided only that the integrity of her doctrine be safeguarded. This notwithstanding, the temerity and daring of those who introduce novel liturgical practices, or call for the revival of obsolete rites out of harmony with prevailing laws and rubrics, deserve severe reproof.”

Could such an “Ancient Form” liturgy be “crafted”? Most likely it could. Should it be? To do so would be in direct contradiction to Mediator Dei and the critical fact that liturgy is meant to develop organically.

 

[twf]

Yet, as I understand it, many elements of the Ordinary Form were introduced as “restorations” of ancient or lost rites / prayers. Certainly I have heard many times that the Liturgy was “simplified” to better reflect the early church. That’s also the backstory behind Eucharistic Prayer II…supposedly a restoration of an ancient Western prayer (though I’ve seen that disputed).

 

[R_H_Benson]

Mediator Dei was largely ignored and often flatly contradicted by the liturgical progressives after the Council.

 

[twf]

Though…to be fair… Pius XII doesn’t trump Bl Paul VI?

 

[R_H_Benson]

That is a reason why it is so interesting to see a later Pope completely diverge from the magisterium of one of his very recent predecessors.

 

[otjm]

Yes, it is possible, but seems about as likely as a snowball in “that other place”.

I know there has been a good deal of research in liturgy, including the early church; however, I am not familiar with what books may be available concerning findings.

Bishop Duschak, of the Philippines made a similar suggestion during Vatican 2, but it did not get anywhere; there was enough work to do and enough resistance to that work that consideration of the request did not occur.

I would not go so far as to say that the OF is copied on the early Church liturgy; but certainly some of what the early Church did has come over in the revisions to the sacraments - something that does not seem to come up much in the discussions of the OF/EF conversation.

 

[otjm]

What sometimes we all fail to see is that pronouncements by whomever are often tied very historically to what is the current practice. Pope Pius 12th’s comments and directions were not doctrinal so much as they were disciplinary. Liturgical research goes back to Pius 10th, and as time proceeded, so did the information base, and further research.

And not to make too fine a point of it, but Pope Pius 12th certainly had a hand in shaping the Curia which was in place when John 23rd became Pope, and was still in place when Montini became Pope. And to anyone who has studied the Council itself and what went on knows that the Curia, and in particular Cardinal Ottaviani as head of the Theological Preparatory Commission attempted to direct what was to be considered and the documents attendant thereto. There were ongoing battles between the bishops of the world and the Curia, along much more than just the document on the Liturgy.

 

[Duesenberg]

accommodates herself to temporal needs and circumstances, provided only that the integrity of her doctrine be safeguarded.

Sounds like support for the creation of the OF Mass. Oh wait, then comes the silly “organic” argument crafted in order to attack the OF Mass. Odd that Pius didn’t add that himself.

novel liturgical practices, or call for the revival of obsolete rites out of harmony with prevailing laws and rubrics, deserve severe reproof

“Novel?” What does that mean in this context? Who decides what is “novel”? Pius?

“Out of harmony?” Just who is the arbiter of what is harmonious? Pius again?

 

[1neophyte]

If this ever happens, I really hope the “AF” abbreviation is not used.

 

[Mintaka]

Even in cases where we have a very complete text of an older Mass form (say, Sarum Rite, which was the standard Latin Rite Mass during most of the Middle Ages across a lot of Europe), we don’t only have the text. We don’t have the rubrics, or only part of them; so we really wouldn’t know how to say Mass.

Mass is taught to budding priests by other priests or the bishop. It’s something handed down, not something you just start doing on your own.

So even if you have the texts, you would still be pulling it out of your butt. It would be disconnected from the past. So yeah, that’s fine if you’re making a historical movie, but it’s just not right for an individual person.

If you aren’t interested in other forms of Mass, you can look into all sorts of other Masses used by the other Catholic Rites. But they all say Mass as it is said in AD 2017. They are all worshipping Jesus Christ, Who came to us at a specific point in history, as they have answered His call for specific historical developments in His Church.

Of course, if you have a time machine, you are totally okay to go to Mass in older formats! And if you can bring a priest along, no doubt he can learn the Really Old Masses. But he probably wouldn’t feel right about saying them in the present, except in a “dry Mass” (practice of the words and gestures without actually saying Mass). Why treat the oak tree like an acorn?

 

[Duesenberg]

Even in cases where we have a very complete text of an older Mass form (say, Sarum Rite, which was the standard Latin Rite Mass during most of the Middle Ages across a lot of Europe), we don’t only have the text. We don’t have the rubrics, or only part of them; so we really wouldn’t know how to say Mass.

Mass is taught to budding priests by other priests or the bishop. It’s something handed down, not something you just start doing on your own.

So even if you have the texts, you would still be pulling it out of your butt. It would be disconnected from the past. So yeah, that’s fine if you’re making a historical movie, but it’s just not right for an individual person.

If you aren’t interested in other forms of Mass, you can look into all sorts of other Masses used by the other Catholic Rites. But they all say Mass as it is said in AD 2017. They are all worshipping Jesus Christ, Who came to us at a specific point in history, as they have answered His call for specific historical developments in His Church.

Of course, if you have a time machine, you are totally okay to go to Mass in older formats! And if you can bring a priest along, no doubt he can learn the AF Masses. But he probably wouldn’t feel right about saying them in the present, except in a “dry Mass” (practice of the words and gestures without actually saying Mass). Why treat the oak tree like an acorn?

Mass is also learned by studying its order and rubrics which have been well defined for centuries. Sad no documentation on the Mass survived from the first few centuries.

Don’t be crude here.

Other Catholic churches (not “rites”) do not celebrate the Mass. They have their own sacrificial liturgies.