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JimG
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Child car seats as contraception.
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Beryllos
Guest
I skimmed the article and didn’t catch the part where they show evidence of causation. I got the correlation between car seat laws and declining birthrate, but it would require more research to support the suggestion (or was it a claim?) of causation, e.g., that some parents stop after two children because they can’t fit a third car seat in the back. And don’t parents get a minivan to solve that problem?
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Mtatum1958
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I would guess there is a higher correlation between the divorce rate in Maine and the per capita consumption of margarine (r = 0.9926).
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heidi_storage
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That seems implausible. Having a kid involves so much more than “drat! Will we be able to fit a third carseat into the sedan?”
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JimG
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From the article:
"The professors argued that given that many cars cannot fit three car seats in one back row, many families desiring a third child were faced with the prospect of having to buy a bigger car, in addition to a third car seat.
“We estimate that these laws prevented only 57 car crash fatalities of children nationwide in 2017. Simultaneously, they led to a permanent reduction of approximately 8,000 births in the same year, and 145,000 fewer births since 1980, with 90% of this decline being since 2000,” the paper said.
"The professors argued that given that many cars cannot fit three car seats in one back row, many families desiring a third child were faced with the prospect of having to buy a bigger car, in addition to a third car seat.
“We estimate that these laws prevented only 57 car crash fatalities of children nationwide in 2017. Simultaneously, they led to a permanent reduction of approximately 8,000 births in the same year, and 145,000 fewer births since 1980, with 90% of this decline being since 2000,” the paper said.
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Beryllos
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By evidence, I mean things like interviews or surveys, or even an otherwise unexplained predominance of two-child families.
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heidi_storage
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They don’t prove their case at all, and the prior plausibility of their hypothesis isn’t great. If you’re going to talk about burdens to family, child care seems a much bigger barrier than do car seat laws, especially since many sedans DO fit three seats. (Even then, European countries with subsidized child care have worse fertility rates than does the U.S.) And why, precisely, do finance professors think this is an appropriate topic for them to present research on?
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JimG
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When I was growing up this was not a problem. We had a family sedan with bench seats front and back. Parents plus one kid could sit in front and up to four kids in the back. We took a lot of family vacations this way.
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F_Marturana
Guest
My parents had 2 kids.
We never sat in a car seat.
I honestly think my dad’s car only had lap belts.
We sat in the back seat, front seat. There’s a picture of me “steering” as I sat in my fathers lap as he drove.
Each one of my children sat in a car seat, then booster seat until they were tall enough to sit without a seat.
We have three children.
We never sat in a car seat.
I honestly think my dad’s car only had lap belts.
We sat in the back seat, front seat. There’s a picture of me “steering” as I sat in my fathers lap as he drove.
Each one of my children sat in a car seat, then booster seat until they were tall enough to sit without a seat.
We have three children.
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DarkLight
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I expect education costs are a much bigger concern than transportation costs, especially for middle class families who generally presume their kids will be going to college.
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Beryllos
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Thanks for the link to the original paper.
It appears that they have analyzed birth rates for families with different numbers of children already on board, in states with different laws, in families depending on cars for their transportation.
I don’t have the time to read it in full, but it looks worthy of consideration. I can’t dispute their methods, and so I admit that they might be right.
It appears that they have analyzed birth rates for families with different numbers of children already on board, in states with different laws, in families depending on cars for their transportation.
I don’t have the time to read it in full, but it looks worthy of consideration. I can’t dispute their methods, and so I admit that they might be right.
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1Lord1Faith
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Someone is really reaching for a hypothesis IMO.
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Pattylt
Guest
I had my children before car seats were mandated…or even existed and yet I still only had two children?
I have a feeling there are much more likely reasons for two child families than how many car seats fit in the average car. I live in SUV country which can often seat more than two children yet two child families are the norm here, too.
College costs, housing, food, medical bills, life styles, heck, even having to figure in room for the dog is much more likely. Correlation and causation are not the same thing!
I have a feeling there are much more likely reasons for two child families than how many car seats fit in the average car. I live in SUV country which can often seat more than two children yet two child families are the norm here, too.
College costs, housing, food, medical bills, life styles, heck, even having to figure in room for the dog is much more likely. Correlation and causation are not the same thing!
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Beryllos
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It’s not farfetched.
Many, or most cars (not suv) does not not have a place for three carseat in the back.
It’s the case for us. So unless we buy another bigger car, which we cannot afford, our family will stay with 2 children.
Another solution would be to wait until the oldest is more than 10 years olds, so no car seat will need, but we will be old at that time.
It’s not uncommom. Many families, when they have 3 children have to buy another car. The problematic is even much more critical for families who have 4 children or more. The car become very difficult to find, very expensive, very costy for inassurance and gazoil and overtaxed by the governement.
We also have to note that in France the bigger the car is (or heavier) the better the governement give us monetary mallus. And “familial” vehicule that allowed more than 2 carseat are in the category that are overtaxed.
I agree that it often is an excuse for someone that do not want more than 2 children. It is for my husband who wish a bigger car to put more objects, but not for having another child. And in our case, the two bedroom house, the difficulty to moove (as we are owner) and my husband unwillingness to moove is another big parameter. The children financial "burden, even if justified is another excuse. There are many others excuses such as an “unable” mother.
Many, or most cars (not suv) does not not have a place for three carseat in the back.
It’s the case for us. So unless we buy another bigger car, which we cannot afford, our family will stay with 2 children.
Another solution would be to wait until the oldest is more than 10 years olds, so no car seat will need, but we will be old at that time.
It’s not uncommom. Many families, when they have 3 children have to buy another car. The problematic is even much more critical for families who have 4 children or more. The car become very difficult to find, very expensive, very costy for inassurance and gazoil and overtaxed by the governement.
We also have to note that in France the bigger the car is (or heavier) the better the governement give us monetary mallus. And “familial” vehicule that allowed more than 2 carseat are in the category that are overtaxed.
I agree that it often is an excuse for someone that do not want more than 2 children. It is for my husband who wish a bigger car to put more objects, but not for having another child. And in our case, the two bedroom house, the difficulty to moove (as we are owner) and my husband unwillingness to moove is another big parameter. The children financial "burden, even if justified is another excuse. There are many others excuses such as an “unable” mother.
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I have a Dacia/Renault Logan MCV (Similar in size to a Ford Focus Station Wagon) and it wouldn’t be the widest car, but I could get three seats in. I would be a little awkward but do-able. It’s also about fitting the seat to the car. There are chunky seats and more streamlined seats with the same safety rating.
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Thanks you for the precious information. My husband would like to buy a second hand Dacia renault Logan for more space and because it’s cheap…before…
… because Dacia renault Logan are an heavy car that is planned to be overtaxed by our governement for ecology.
My parents had also a Dacia Renault Logan. I don’t know if they are all the same, I don’t know anything on cars.
My sense is that we cannot put three cars seats in the back. When I put my baby “cosy” and my daughter’s car seat, little space is left in between. Maybe it will work will smaller cosy that are no longer sold (0-9 kg) but that I still have in stock, and two others car seats.
I am not sure for three cars set. I have what is sold in supermarket or second hand. We cannot put 450 Euros in a special car set that will be maybe smaller.
… because Dacia renault Logan are an heavy car that is planned to be overtaxed by our governement for ecology.
My parents had also a Dacia Renault Logan. I don’t know if they are all the same, I don’t know anything on cars.
My sense is that we cannot put three cars seats in the back. When I put my baby “cosy” and my daughter’s car seat, little space is left in between. Maybe it will work will smaller cosy that are no longer sold (0-9 kg) but that I still have in stock, and two others car seats.
I am not sure for three cars set. I have what is sold in supermarket or second hand. We cannot put 450 Euros in a special car set that will be maybe smaller.
Yeah Logan is a good car. Though I think what you on the continent mean by the Logan is the sedan. In Ireland and the UK we just have the Estate/Wagon version called the Logan MCV. I’ve had mine for two years now and it’s great and cheap to run. I have heard of people getting three car seats into the Logan or Sandero. There’s a great owners group on Facebook where you could ask about fitting three car seats and what seats will fit. Dacia Logan MCV Owners Club UK.
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Link below:
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