Could Our Lady of Fatima been talking about Russia returning to orthodoxy?

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When Our Lady of Fatima requested that Russia be consecrated to her immaculate heart and if so would be converted and if not would spread her errors. Could she have meant that she would just return to orthodoxy not Catholicism. This has seemed to have been the case. But I don’t know a ton about Fatima so any insight would be cool.
 
According to the late Fr. Joaquin Alonso, the official archivist of Fatima, Russia will convert to the Catholic Faith. I’d give you a direct quote but his book is packed away in the garage right now.
 
I’m curious about what errors are in the Russian Orthodox faith? I actually do not know much about Our Lady of Fatima (of course I know she appeared to three young Portuguese children) and that my parish growing up was her name sake lol.

ZP
 
It’s believed she was speaking about the errors of the country like communism not the church.
 
Our Lady said that if Russia was consecrated to the immaculate heart Russia would return to Christianity. The common interpretation is that she meant Catholicism but I think it could’ve meant orthodoxy since that’s the primary Christian Faith there.
 
Jragzz123 said:
Our Lady said that if Russia was consecrated to the immaculate heart Russia would return to Christianity.
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June 13, 1929 Our Lady said to +Sister Lucia in the Presence of the Most Holy Trinity:

“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to order and make in union with all the bishops of the world the consecration Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means. There are so many souls whom the Justice of God condemns for sins committed against me; sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.”

Source: dos Santos, +Sister Lucia. Fatima in Lucia’s Own Words. Kondor, Rev. L., translator. 1976, Portugal, Fatima, Postulation Centre.

In the 1950s, She told +Sister Lucia:

“Without the consecration, Russia will not be able to convert, nor will the world have peace.”

Pope Pius XII consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary BUT WITHOUT ALL the bishops.

Pope Pius XII, PJPII, and PF either entrusted and/or consecrated the WORLD - NOT Russia! - to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Some people think that since the world is consecrated to Our Lady, therefore so is Russia. Not so. That would be like saying because my entire family is baptized therefore I’m baptized. A consecration is very specific, like the consecration of a church.
In the Byzantine Tradition, every person is called by name, e.g. “The servant of God, Margaret Ann, is baptized in the Name of +the Father +and the Son +and the Holy Ghost.” When I receive Communion: "The servant of God, Margaret, receives… "

Also, in the Byzantine Tradition, when a priest is ordained, only the local hierarch (Arch/bishop) does the ordination BUT when a bishop is ordained, *three hierarchs - not just one - are required by our rubrics. The same principle applies here. Because Russia is a nation, therefore ALL the bishops of the world must join the Holy Father in consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which is what Our Lady said God wanted (see above).

Does that help?
 
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I agree! That kind of thinking, Orthodox becoming Catholic, will not restore full communion. As an Orthodox Christian myself, we believe to be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and, as far as I am concerned, the Church of Rome is also. I feel that the Orthodox/Catholic dialogue should continue as it has been, with success thus far.

ZP
 
To me, as an unbeliever, it always seems strange that Our Lady would, if she were to appear, speak in statements requiring interpretation. If She meant: “If 80% of people pray in the way I have suggested over a period of 10 years, Russia (and other parts of the Soviet Union? Was the Ukraine to remain unconverted?) will be largely converted to Roman Catholicism by ?1935” why would she not say so in exact terms? Then people could have got on with praying instead of debating her meaning.

To be more exact in what I’m saying: I think that if there are spiritual beings able to communicate with us, and if there is a God, inspiring them, I would predict that prophecies and promises by these beings would be specific in order to best change human behaviour.
 
I agree. I think Russia has a big role to play in the war against the rise of atheism, paganism, and pantheism. That’s why our lady was so big on their conversion!
 
ziapueblo said:
That kind of thinking, Orthodox becoming Catholic, will not restore full communion.
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As I’ve posted many times before, when God wants something done, He wants it done HIS way, not the way we would like Him to do it.
Margaret_Ann said:
“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to order and make in union with all the bishops of the world the consecration Russia to My Immaculate Heart,
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She told +Sister Lucia what God wanted. It’s not for us to say “well, He should do it this way…”. If people would stop arguing about it and just do it exactly as Our Lady said, then we’d get somewhere.
 
Depending on what sources you look at, some say yes and some say no.
 
This is my opinion based on how the Church views conversion and on other Marian apparitions: “conversion” is one of those things that can apply to any location or any time or any person.

Unification and reunification is in keeping with the Lord’s prayer before his Passion and that will always be a mission. It includes bringing in people swept away by ideologies like communism but it also includes unity within Christianity and even unity within the Catholic Church itself. Being Catholic is great but a person quickly discovers that even that communion requires continual maintenance and people are still prone to create factions and divisions without ever leaving the Church.
 
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Margaret_Ann said:
As I’ve posted many times before, when God wants something done, He wants it done HIS way, not the way we would like Him to do it.
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My concern is the wording. When speaking about restoration between the two Churches the language should be about restoring communion rather than becoming Orthodox or becoming Catholic.

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
My concern is the wording. When speaking about restoration between the two Churches the language should be about restoring communion rather than becoming Orthodox or becoming Catholic.

ZP
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Because the separation is ecclesial rather than about dogma, I think this makes sense.
 
TK421 said:
Because the separation is ecclesial rather than about dogma, I think this makes sense.
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The separation IS dogmatic as well as ecclesial. We’ve seen lots of threads on the Filioque, the Immaculate Conception, purgatory etc here debating dogmatic issues that were infallibly defined by the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ upon Peter. There is an unbroken line of Popes from St. Peter the present. Our Lord Himself promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. He also promised to keep His Church from error. No other religious body on earth has those promises. Since He is Truth Incarnate, therefore what He says is true.
 
Margaret_Ann said:
We’ve seen lots of threads on the Filioque, the Immaculate Conception, purgatory etc here debating dogmatic issues that were infallibly defined by the Catholic Church.
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Theologians on both sides who are part of the theological dialogue between the two Churches see these as none issues. The exception, supreme and immediate jurisdiction over the whole Church by the Pope of Rome.

We must remember that these theological expressions you mention above are that of the West. I agree that if full communion is restored the East is to see these theological expressions as valid ones, but at the same time, only as Western theological expressions and are not to be forced upon Eastern Christians.

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
I feel that the Orthodox/Catholic dialogue should continue as it has been, with success thus far.
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With success thus far? I think you are being too optimistic like most Catholics here. I don’t see any movement on the doctrines of papal infallibility and universal papal supremacy over the whole church. How many Orthodox do you know are there who subscribe to the Unam Sanctam teaching that every living human must be subject to the Roman Pontiff in order to be saved? BTW, how do you feel about statues? Are you OK with statues in church instead of icons? And there are other questions concerning fasting regulations, profane musical instruments used during church services, artificial birth control, the liturgy, etc.
 
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