Could the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches Enter into a 'Different' Sort of Communion?

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catholic03

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Pax Christi,

I have a question. It may seem slightly outlandish, so forgive me if it does.

I believe that the Catholic Church, comprised of 24 individual Churches, is the True Church. I believe that the Eastern Orthodox Church is schismatic.

However (although this is not to be held up as a role model), I notice that some Protestant ecclesial communities have entered into a sort of communion whereby they are not ‘one organisation’, but rather multiple organisations ‘in communion’ with each other. The Porvoo Communion is a ‘communion’ of Protestant ecclesial communities, that have signed a common declaration. These communities include the Church of England, other Anglican churches in Europe, and the Scandinavian Lutheran Churches.

I wonder if it would be possible - as a start - to have a similar communion between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Whereby, they acknowledge that they are not ‘in communion’ as the Eastern and Latin Catholics are in communion, but are in Eucharistic communion and each recognise that there are no major doctrinal differences. This is very similar to the concept of the Porvoo communion.
 
I wonder if the Greeks might move towards reunion with us and leave the Russians behind? Patriarch Bartholomew seems to want it (reunion).
 
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catholic03 said:
I wonder if it would be possible - as a start - to have a similar communion between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
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Frankly, there is little interest on the Orthodox side in closer relations with Rome. Better relations, maybe, but closer ones, no. And that is true both for their laity and hierarchy. While it’s true that Patriarch Bartholomew did say recently that a reunion is “inevitable”, he is a minority voice, and doesn’t have much actual power with the Orthodox communion. Right now, the Orthodox are dealing with a schism of their own, so any thoughts of reunion with Rome are on the back burner, if they are on the stove at all.
 
He might want it but I guarantee that the Orthodox will try to make the CC “renounce its errors” which is impossible because the Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, Who promised that the gates of hell will never prevail against it.
 
Yes, and I gather that Bartholomew can’t do much without his Synod of Bishops agreeing.

He himself only has direct power over a few thousand Orthodox in Turkey.
 
It’s such a shame. It is my fervent hope and prayer that I will live to see any reunion.

I think that in the next few decades we’ll either reunite or move further away. The latter looks more likely.
 
catholic03 said:
It’s such a shame. It is my fervent hope and prayer that I will live to see any reunion.
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As I’ve posted on other threads, my Russian Orthodox cousins and I talk to each other, exchange Nativity & Pascha cards but can’t pray with each other.

When my grandma passed away, my RO aunt & uncle (my cousins’ parents) stood like sentinels during the funeral Liturgy. They didn’t say a single word (yes, I was watching them almost the whole time). The only time they sat down was for the homily.

When my uncle died, we went to his funeral (Parastas and Panakhyda - no Liturgy). My parents told us not to say anything in church because it was not a Catholic church and we’d be committing a sin if we did.

At the very end there was the kissing of the cross. My godfather said: “I don’t believe in that.” and turned his head away.
 
Before I came across you and other Eastern Catholics on CAF, I never knew that Eastern Catholics valued union with Rome. I had got it into my head that union with Rome was ‘an afterthought’ from the perspective of Eastern Catholics, and that their hearts really lay in Orthodoxy.

Well, I am glad I know different now. God bless you.
 
Margaret_Ann said:
My parents told us not to say anything in church because it was not a Catholic church and we’d be committing a sin if we did.

At the very end there was the kissing of the cross. My godfather said: “I don’t believe in that.” and turned his head away.
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Please see:

Catholics and Russian Orthodox take steps to Unity | EWTN Vaticano Special​

 
Obviously, both sides have been talking for years. That doesn’t mean it’s going to filter down to the laity.

I’ve posted this before but here goes:

In fall 2007, i.e. after BXVI issued SP and the revised GF prayer, my parents & I went to visit my RO aunt & uncle.

Somehow my aunt & I got on the topic of the revised GF prayer, and at one point she shouted: “He had no right to do that!” and almost slammed the table. I tried to explain to her that he was pressured to do it, but she insisted that he had no right to change that prayer.

My late RO aunt was a very devout RO woman. She and my cousins went to the rededication of the RO cathedral in the late 80s or 1990s (I’d have to ask my cousin for the exact year). She was very proud of having been at that rededication.
 
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The Melkite Greek Catholic Church, by way of the Zoghby Initiative, looked at having a dual communion with Rome and the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch. 26 of 24 bishops in the Melkite synod actually voted in favor of the Zoghby Initiative. The initiative was rejected by both Rome and Constantinople. However, I have heard that the current Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch, John X, is wanting to look into the Zoghby Initiative again due to the current situation in Syria. This could also lead to a similar initiative in the Ukraine?

ZP
 
I find it interesting that she felt annoyed that the Pope changed the prayer.

He’s not Orthodox, and it didn’t affect the Orthodox Church.
Margaret_Ann said:
My late RO aunt was a very devout RO woman. She and my cousins went to the rededication of the RO cathedral in the late 80s or 1990s (I’d have to ask my cousin for the exact year). She was very proud of having been at that rededication.
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Is that the one in Moscow? If so, it’s very beautiful.

Do you have both Ukrainian and Russian ancestors?

One of my teachers at school a couple of years ago was a Ukrainian who spoke Russian and Ukrainian as his first languages.

He had been in the Soviet army so I’d have to assume he wasn’t religious.
 
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The Orthodox would never agree. For us Unity of Faith is the prerequisite for Unity in the Eucharist. Apart from an Ecumenical Council with all the Orthodox Patriarchs and the Pope in attendance, I fail to see any level of unity that could be achieved that would be acceptable to both sides.
 
PilgrimMichelangelo said:
I fail to see any level of unity that could be achieved that would be acceptable to both sides.
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Actually, it is a common Roman Catholic error to frame this as something between two sides. It’s not. There are MANY sides that would have to be satisfied. And that is never going to happen.

As for an ecumenical council, they tried to organize a pan-orthodox council a few years back. It fell through because the Russians boycotted it, among other reasons. If the Pope were to be included, nigh everyone would boycott it.
 
I think communion between the two Churches is possible, not anytime in the foreseeable future, but it would look something like this: Rome allows East to be East and East allows West to be West with the occasional photo op among the Patriarchs. Honestly, I’m sure this is what communion was similar to during the first millennium.

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
Honestly, I’m sure this is what communion was similar to during the first millennium.
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You are aware that for 200 years, Rome belonged to the Byzantine Empire, and for about a century, Eastern clerics outnumbered Latin ones in Rome, to the point where for about 75 years, almost every single pope was from the East?

Things did deteriorate after then, but by then, three quarters of the millennium had already been spent.
 
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