Could we just split?

[blessed_wife]

I think you get to a point in your life, perhaps around the end of college, or maybe later, where you simply get sick of debating.

To be quite honest, my mind is made up. On most things people debate here anyway. I don’t care to debate God, abortion, evolution, creamy vs. smooth peanut butter, the reformation, imperialism, the war in iraq, or the best Evil Dead movie.

It seems like so many of us waste our times debating, like the truth were simply a matter of one side being stupid, and other other smart. This kind of fundamentalism, I find so repulsive- from any side.

Do you think it would be possible, for us, to simply agree to disagree, and find some way to partition the country to resemble something more like the European Union (or Confederate States of America?)?

Would it be possible to have a ‘country’ (or conglomeration of u.s. states) where liberals were free to live as they pleased and under their rules, and conservatives were free to do the same? A country where liberals could freely hand out “heather’s two mommies” to kindergarteners, and where catholics could have morning matins and protestants could read the bible in their respective public schools (for example)?

Really, in this country we waste so much time on hate and debate. Why don’t we spend the energy on something actually worthwhile?

What about FREEDOM?

Isn’t that about living one’s life in a way one sees fit, and in a society that one feels some kind of affinity for?

No matter who wins this election, about 50% of the population will be excluded and dominated. How on earth is that freedom? How does a federal, top down, one size-fits-all system possibly appropriate for such a diverse group of people?

Really, liberal or conservative, people need to realize this is the only way forward. We need to split, to break up, to give each other side breathing space. Could it be done? Could we really stop wasting energy debating, agree to disagree, and leave each other to history?

 

[Wirraway]

I … We need to split, to break up, to give each other side breathing space. Could it be done? Could we really stop wasting energy debating, agree to disagree, and leave each other to history?

not a chance. debate is part of the the marketplace of ideas which “holds that the truth or the best policy arises out of the competition of widely various ideas in free, transparent public discourse, an important part of liberal democracy.”

but, if you really want to let someone else decide for you, I’ll take your vote.

 

[Myhouse]

. We are not Gods unto ourselves. It is impossible to be a Christian and tolerate those who mock God by there actions. We have a small voice, but when you put them together you can fight the battle were in. This is a spiritual battle .If we continue with this live and let live attitude our children, grand children and generations will pay the price. We our in grave danger if we start turning our head on the subject of abortion. I completely understand how difficult it is to read bantering about this and that. I just don’t feel we can become complacent. You have to pick your battles. Maybe one subject is not your cross to bare. I choose to take up my cross against abortion.

 

[crowonsnow]

I think you get to a point in your life, perhaps around the end of college, or maybe later, where you simply get sick of debating.

If I had to live with people just like myself I’d go looney. I need the stimulus that comes from someone who disagrees with me.

Who’s debating anyway? Aren’t we all just having a chat?

 

[Michael_David]

There are times in one’s life when debating is counter-productive… like when one is under stress, feeling down and just trying to stay afloat, when one want’s to go ahead with their plans as they have already decided (without more interference)(whether good or bad for them or not)(this is the free-will ‘push’ felt in blooming adulthood). Later, one finds out many things they did not know earlier (in the process of doing), and a little extra guidance (debate, discussion, or just talking about it) helps to set (re-set) the compass.

Through living, we deal with what we have ‘inside’ and what is in our environment on the ‘outside’. As we age (grow… it never stops) our inside matures and tries to re-fit with the outside happenings. This of course is predominate during life-changes, but also day-by-day in the process of living. And during each of these new days, one is in ‘new’ territory (so to speak), experience is in process, not evaluated yet, that comes later. And some of that outside may start to cling to our being, whether good or bad, and cloud our thinking. How does one keep pure (by inside standards) with so much dust from the outside? One has to keep the thinking process ‘exercised’, just like the body need use to stay lean, and the heart and soul as well.

We call this living life. Just look at it like this: does one want to be 22 forever? Or, when one turns 23, it is their first time EVER at being 23, and it will only be for 365 days. Then they will be 24, and on and on. And when one is 30, what was affecting one at 22 is no more, now there are other things affecting 30… it’s always NEW. Perhaps one who has been there (and seems to have survived) can help with the problems encountered. Perhaps, one at 22 can give one 19 some advice, as now, 19 is experience for the one 22.

I have found that most times I wanted to ‘go my own way’, my motives where selfish, or I was not considering others in my life. The social side of one suffers and the heart feels it later as regrets. And looking back, a good discussion/debate would of maybe done the trick… that is why I seek out others thoughts now. It’s my way of checks-and-balances in living life.

 

[BeeSweet]

United we stand, divided we fall.

:slapfight:

 

[crowonsnow]

United we stand, divided we fall.

Nah…

United we stand; Divided we stand.

That’s how I see the U.S. anyway.

 

[cpayne]

I think you get to a point in your life, perhaps around the end of college, or maybe later, where you simply get sick of debating.

To be quite honest, my mind is made up. On most things people debate here anyway. I don’t care to debate God, abortion, evolution, creamy vs. smooth peanut butter, the reformation, imperialism, the war in iraq, or the best Evil Dead movie.

It seems like so many of us waste our times debating, like the truth were simply a matter of one side being stupid, and other other smart. This kind of fundamentalism, I find so repulsive- from any side.

Do you think it would be possible, for us, to simply agree to disagree, and find some way to partition the country to resemble something more like the European Union (or Confederate States of America?)?

Would it be possible to have a ‘country’ (or conglomeration of u.s. states) where liberals were free to live as they pleased and under their rules, and conservatives were free to do the same? A country where liberals could freely hand out “heather’s two mommies” to kindergarteners, and where catholics could have morning matins and protestants could read the bible in their respective public schools (for example)?

Really, in this country we waste so much time on hate and debate. Why don’t we spend the energy on something actually worthwhile?

What about FREEDOM?

Isn’t that about living one’s life in a way one sees fit, and in a society that one feels some kind of affinity for?

No matter who wins this election, about 50% of the population will be excluded and dominated. How on earth is that freedom? How does a federal, top down, one size-fits-all system possibly appropriate for such a diverse group of people?

Really, liberal or conservative, people need to realize this is the only way forward. We need to split, to break up, to give each other side breathing space. Could it be done? Could we really stop wasting energy debating, agree to disagree, and leave each other to history?

At least in the political realm, perhaps a way around this impasse (and a way that is at least possible, maybe) is for the U.S. to adopt a congressional system somewhat like the British model. In other words, it’s not “winner take all” but rather “you get representation according to the percentage of your vote.”

This would at least keep some of the zest in debating—we would know, at least in political matters, that our views would be represented, if we could convince even a few people of our positions.

On the other level, the personal level, much of the debate that goes on here is not done for the purpose of changing the mind of the person one is debating. As you say, most of the time people’s minds are made up. It is rather for the purpose of those who are reading along and occasionally joining in. It is good to see both sides once in a while.

And, in my case, it was reading an apologist engaged in a debate that completely changed me. Dave Armstrong made the statement, “There is only one place in the Bible ‘faith alone’ is mentioned, and that is James 2: we are NOT saved by faith alone.” When I read that, something went off inside me; I thought, “Yes, that’s right! The Catholics are right about something in the Bible, a key doctrine, and we Protestants are wrong! How did that happen?” From there, one thing led to another—pretty quickly, in fact. And I ended up here, and I hope to end up in the CC.

So debate occasionally can help.

 

[JudieK]

Most people never debate. In fact, most people don’t think about issues enough or care enough about anything to have an opinion. They float happily along through life, blissfully ignorant and glazed over from spending their lives watching sitcoms and tabloid TV. Most Catholics I know fall into this category. They don’t even care about abortion, gay marriage, getting to Mass, confession, or anything else.

On the other hand, some people DO think, and read, and study, and care deeply. And part of that involves discussing ideas with others… using that freedom of speech that we have.

Now- if it bothers you that there is so much dissention on these boards (and many others on the internet), just simply avoid them. Then you would never hear all the debate and discussion going on, and it wouldn’t bother you. I frequently take breaks from blogging, just for my own peace of mind. I also avoid subjects that I know upset me. I think we DO have freedoms- freedom to homeschool or send your child to a private school. I wish the public schools weren’t so liberal, but they are. We can opt out. I don’t think separating out would be the answer, as we are called to be “light” to the world and “salt” for the earth. Elections are opportunities to discuss and share your views.

 

[Shannon9791]

To be quite honest, my mind is made up. On most things people debate here anyway. I don’t care to debate…creamy vs. smooth peanut butter…or the best Evil Dead movie.

Just for the record, I want it to be known that I don’t like peanut butter, and Evil Dead 2 has to be #1 with Army of Darkness being #1A.

“Oh, that’s just what we call pillowtalk, baby, that’s all.”

 

[cpayne]

Just for the record, I want it to be known that I don’t like peanut butter, and Evil Dead 2 has to be #1 with Army of Darkness being #1A.

“Oh, that’s just what we call pillowtalk, baby, that’s all.”

“I’ll have to ask you to leave the store.”

 

[tm30]

Really, liberal or conservative, people need to realize this is the only way forward. We need to split, to break up, to give each other side breathing space. Could it be done? Could we really stop wasting energy debating, agree to disagree, and leave each other to history?

Meh. Liberals/secularists have already demonstrated what they do to peaceable, religiously-anchored nations during WW II and the Cold War.

As Don Corleone said, “Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.”

 

[Wirraway]

Meh. Liberals/secularists have already demonstrated what they do to peaceable, religiously-anchored nations during WW II and the Cold War.

As Don Corleone said, “Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.”

exactly what we did the the Japanese and their god-emperor.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

you seem frustrated with the current political system and culture, or at least its present state of being. I understand, its frustrating for half the population no matter which way you look at it.

that being said let me suggest something else.

peoples ideas are part of their identity, they will defend them the same way they would defend their flesh. People usually wont change their mind no matter what evidence is presented to them.

so you are correct, one will not change ones mind. one has a settled cultural/political identity and we cant understand how others can feel different and still be rational.

there is however a solution.
one could always “split”

 

[benedictus2]

At least in the political realm, perhaps a way around this impasse (and a way that is at least possible, maybe) is for the U.S. to adopt a congressional system somewhat like the British model. In other words, it’s not “winner take all” but rather “you get representation according to the percentage of your vote.”

This would at least keep some of the zest in debating—we would know, at least in political matters, that our views would be represented, if we could convince even a few people of our positions.

On the other level, the personal level, much of the debate that goes on here is not done for the purpose of changing the mind of the person one is debating. As you say, most of the time people’s minds are made up. It is rather for the purpose of those who are reading along and occasionally joining in. It is good to see both sides once in a while.

And, in my case, it was reading an apologist engaged in a debate that completely changed me. Dave Armstrong made the statement, “There is only one place in the Bible ‘faith alone’ is mentioned, and that is James 2: we are NOT saved by faith alone.” When I read that, something went off inside me; I thought, “Yes, that’s right! The Catholics are right about something in the Bible, a key doctrine, and we Protestants are wrong! How did that happen?” From there, one thing led to another—pretty quickly, in fact. And I ended up here, and I hope to end up in the CC.

So debate occasionally can help.

First off, WELCOME HOME.

Secondly, I like the debates (even when it gets heated sometimes). I have only been here a short while and I have learned a lot.

I have been challenged here and I would say that were a Protestatnt to ask me about my faith, I am in a more capable postion to defend the Church now than before I joined CAF.

Before I didn’t even know the Catholic Church believe ni predestination. Now I know that she does just very different to the way Calvin understands it.

There are some brilliant apologists here and I am so thankful that I found this site.