Council authority

[brgregmack]

I have a protestant friend who uses the “general consensus of believers” argument to back up essential and nonessential doctrine. He further argues that that’s what went on at the councils of the early Church, and as such there’s no way to affirm that they can be trusted.

How do I get across to him their authority?

 

[brgregmack]

here’s the copy of an email I’m about to send. please let me know if anything needs to be edited, added, etc.

Today you seemed to be saying that the councils of the early Church were decided by general consensus, and as such don’t give much assurance as to whether or not they can be trusted to be infallible. However, what happened at the very first council? It’s described in Acts 15 and is discussed among the apostles and the elders. At the conclusion of the council, it is St. Peter who ultimately decides the matter, and in the letter they send out, it says, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things” (vs. 28 RSV, emphasis mine).

Is the Holy Spirit fallible??.. and if no authority had been given to the apostles, what reason would there be for the early Christians to obey? If they had no authority, and we can only define dogmatic truth on the basis of a general consensus of believers, than the process is reduced to a game of who has the best sounding arguments as the winner.

 

[Abu]

True of that first Council, the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem. All Councils have to have the approval of Christ’s Supreme Vicar – the Pope.

Why would the confused want to deny Jesus of Nazareth, Son of God, over giving His authority and Primacy to Peter as His Vicar?

It was Jesus who said to His apostles “he that hears you hears Me” (Lk 10:16)
All four promises to Peter alone:
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." ( Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19)

Sole authority:
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

Would the confused deny St John and St Paul Too?
The Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Tim 3:16).” St. Paul says also, “through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Eph 3:10).” The Church teaches even the angels! This is with the authority of Christ! We are redeemed by Christ’s Passion and Death (heaven was opened); we are not saved until we co-operate with Him.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I would have cited Acts 15 as well and the Holy Spirit part. I’d also ask your sola scriptura friend (I assume he is) where this doctrine by “general consensus of believers” is in Scripture. I’m pretty sure Paul anathematized anyone who didn’t teach what the Apostles did. (Gal. 1:8)

 

[brgregmack]

are there any examples that I could cite of when general consensus has led to a bad outcome?

 

[Abu]

Never has Christ allowed a “consensus” to determine truth.

Take the case of His teaching on the Eucharist:
Why deny Christ? “Amen. amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me and I in Him.” (Jn 6:53-6). Now follow Jesus instead of the Jews who taunted Him and thus “many of His disciples …no longer accompanied Him” (Jn 6:66)

Did Jesus call them back? No, He let them go.

 

[brgregmack]

here’s an expanded form of the email I’m about to send:

Yesterday you seemed to be saying that the councils of the early Church were decided by general consensus, and as such don’t give much assurance as to whether or not they can be trusted to be infallible. However, what happened at the very first council? It’s described in Acts 15 and is discussed among the apostles and the elders. At the conclusion of the council, it is St. Peter who ultimately decides the matter, and in the letter they send out, it says, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things” (vs. 28 RSV, emphasis mine). Doesn’t this sound like someone who is using teaching authority over the rest of believers?

Christ Himself leaves no room for general consensus in Matthew when he asks the apostles who others say He is, and then asks them who they say He is. Further, in the opening of his letter to the Galatians, Paul anathematizes those who teach anything contrary to that of the apostles, and also establishes is teaching authority in in the opening of his letter to Titus.

Is the Holy Spirit fallible??.. and if no authority had been given to Peter and the apostles, what reason would there be for the early Christians to obey? If they had no authority, and we can only define dogmatic truth on the basis of a general consensus of believers, than the process is reduced to a game of who has the best sounding arguments as the winner. We’ve seen this in the secular world with so-called gay-marriage and the sexual revolution.

 

[MarcoPolo]

are there any examples that I could cite of when general consensus has led to a bad outcome?

You also had the “world gone Arian” after the Council of Nicea defined the Trinity. Jerome was known to have said this. But the council’s authority was validated by subsequent councils.

 

[pablope]

are there any examples that I could cite of when general consensus has led to a bad outcome?

Protestants (in general) are the best example. When one does not agree, one goes on to establish his/her own church. It makes their idea of Church conform to what they want it to be, instead of the other way around.

 

[thistle]

Canon Law:

ARTICLE 2: THE COLLEGE OF BISHOPS

Can. 336 The head of the College of Bishops is the Supreme Pontiff, and its members are the Bishops by virtue of their sacramental consecration and hierarchical communion with the head of the College and its members. This College of Bishops, in which the apostolic body abides in an unbroken manner, is, in union with its head and never without this head, also the subject of supreme and full power over the universal Church.

Can. 337 §1 The College of Bishops exercises its power over the universal Church in solemn form in an Ecumenical Council.

§2 It exercises this same power by the united action of the Bishops dispersed throughout the world, when this action is as such proclaimed or freely accepted by the Roman Pontiff, so that it becomes a truly collegial act.

§3 It belongs to the Roman Pontiff to select and promote, according to the needs of the Church, ways in which the College of Bishops can exercise its office in respect of the universal Church in a collegial manner.

Can. 338 §1 It is the prerogative of the Roman Pontiff alone to summon an Ecumenical Council, to preside over it personally or through others, to transfer, suspend or dissolve the Council, and to approve its decrees.

§2 It is also the prerogative of the Roman Pontiff to determine the matters to be dealt with in the Council, and to establish the order to be observed. The Fathers of the Council may add other matters to those proposed by the Roman Pontiff, but these must be approved by the Roman Pontiff .

Can. 339 §1 All Bishops, but only Bishops who are members of the College of Bishops, have the right and the obligation to be present at an Ecumenical Council with a deliberative vote.

§2 Some others besides, who do not have the episcopal dignity, can be summoned to an Ecumenical Council by the supreme authority in the Church, to whom it belongs to determine what part they take in the Council.

Can. 340 If the Apostolic See should become vacant during the celebration of the Council, it is by virtue of the law itself suspended until the new Supreme Pontiff either orders it to continue or dissolves it.

Can. 341 §1 The decrees of an Ecumenical Council do not oblige unless they are approved by the Roman Pontiff as well as by the Fathers of the Council, confirmed by the Roman Pontiff and promulgated by his direction.

§2 If they are to have binding force, the same confirmation and promulgation is required for decrees which the College of Bishops issues by truly collegial actions in another manner introduced or freely accepted by the Roman Pontiff.