Council of Rome 745

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Waynec

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Hi,

On page 164 in the CCC footnote 483 there is a reference to the Council of Rome 745 I tried searching for this but to no avail. I would like to read this because it is a reference as to when Jesus went to the souls/prisoners in Hades, 1 Peter 3:18. We are taught that it was between Jesus death and resurrection. My JW friend says it is after Jesus resurrected as per 1 Peter 3:18. any help would be appreciated.

Can some one out there help me?
Thanks
 
Can you give us the paragraph number? My edition isn’t the same as yours.
Thanks

[Add]
I think I’ve found it. It’s paragraph 632. Here’s the link (below) to the online CCC at the Holy See Website. But I can’t see any reference here to any of the Councils – only, as you say, to the verses in 1 Peter…
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM
 
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633 I would like to be able to find all the references in the foot note but I don’t know how or where to look?

It is under the heading of article 5 He Descended into hell on the third day He arose again. From the Profession of Faith
 
Okay, now I’ve caught up with you.

That’s going to be tough, I’m afraid. The only Council of Rome that I’ve ever heard of is the one that Jerome organized in 382 on behalf of Pope Damasus I, and which is chiefly (or solely) remembered for settling the canon of Sacred Scripture.

I’ve had a quick look at the New Advent website but I didn’t find anything. Want to try? Here’s the link:

http://www.newadvent.org/
 
Waynec said:
Hi,

On page 164 in the CCC footnote 483 there is a reference to the Council of Rome 745 I tried searching for this but to no avail. I would like to read this because it is a reference as to when Jesus went to the souls/prisoners in Hades, 1 Peter 3:18. We are taught that it was between Jesus death and resurrection. My JW friend says it is after Jesus resurrected as per 1 Peter 3:18. any help would be appreciated.
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[1Pt3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.]

I think 1Pt3:-20 is very clear Christ was bodily dead when his soul=spirit descended into Hades (the abode of the dead) and preached unto the spirits in prison.

CCC634 “The gospel was preached even to the dead.” The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.co...=0&q=preached+to+the+dead&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

CCC633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/633.htm
 
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I’m not really sure that you will be able to find the actual documents related to the CCC reference you’re looking for.

It seems it has something to do with Pope Zachary, St. Boniface and denouncing heretic clergy.

For instance - see the footnote listed for this info here

http://www.8thcentury.com/2017/08/wandering-heretic-priests-of-course/

In the Catholic Encyclopedia on Pope Zachary it says “In 745 was held the general synod for the Frankish kingdom called by Pepin and Carloman. Here decrees were passed against unworthy ecclesiastics, and the two heretics, Adelbert and Clement, were again condemned. Boniface sent a Frankish priest to Rome to make a report to the pope, and the latter held on 25 October, 745, a synod at the Lateran at which, after exhaustive investigation, an anathema was pronounced against the two heretics. Zachary forwarded the acts of the synod with a letter to Boniface.”

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15743b.htm
 
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Thanks. The entire note reads: Cf. Council of Rome(745) DS587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341: DS. Why do they put notes like this if some one like me doesn’t know how or can’t access them? I find it annoying.
 
I found it! But it’s such a small reference to the teaching and doesn’t go in depth so it won’t give you much info you can use apologetically for the point you want to defend.

The two small references are as follows,

One of the accusations against the heretic Clement

" Contrary to the teaching of the Fathers, he affirms that Christ descended into hell to deliver all those, believers and unbelievers, servants of Christ as well as worshippers of idols, who were confined there. "

The decision of the assembly against Clement

"In the same way let Clement, who in his foolhardiness rejected the decrees of the Fathers, accepted the Old Testament regulations in so far as he allowed a man to marry his brother’s widow, and furthermore affirmed that our Lord Jesus Christ descended into hell to deliver all the godly and the ungodly, let hint., we say, be stripped of his episcopal office, excommunicated and condemned by the everlasting judgment of God. "

The Acts of this particular synod can be found in the Letters of St. Boniface under letter 29 if you want to read up on it. They can be found here…

https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/boniface-letters.asp
 
It’s a reference to a Denzinger number. Elizabeth found the text in English. There’s an online copy of the Enchiridion symbolorum in Latin at bxs, and there, the Latin is given as:
587 … Clemens, qui per suam stultitiam sanctorum Patrum statuta (scripta) respuit vel omnia synodalia acta (parvipendit), inferens etiam Christianis judaismum, dum praedicet fratris defuncti accipere uxorem (uxorem posse in matrimonium iungi), insuper et Dominum Iesum Christum descendentem ad inferos omnes (-!) pios et impios exinde praedicat (simul inde) abstraxisse, ab omni sit (-!) sacerdotali officio nudatus (deponatur) et anathematis vinculo obligatus (obligetur).
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@Elizabeth3 found it in English, elsewhere. 😉

I tried her link, but it came up with a 404 error.
 
Thanks for the link. It worked for me and looks like a good source. I bookmarked it for future reference.
 
I don’t see the problem.
The very early Apostles Creed clearly states His descent was before his Resurrection.
 
Neither do I but I have to make that point for a JW. If it is not in black and white they will disagree.
 
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