Council of Trent: Canons on Justification..HELP!

[Annunciata]

I need these Canons defined. Council of Trent: Canons on Justification
cfpeople.org/Apologetics/page51a038.html

I’m on another thread and I really think these remarks belong here … I’m new at Apologetics and don’t really know how to do justice in defense of this:

francisca:

The fact was not the protestants “rejected” The Church, but The Church CONDEMNED them all in Trent Council.

Without Trent Council, our separated bretheren would have remained in The Church (even though they “protested”, they couldn’t have left The Church without it condemning them).

Thanks to Trent Council now we have lots of denominations.

.

 

[Apologia100]

Annunciata:

I need these Canons defined. Council of Trent: Canons on Justification
cfpeople.org/Apologetics/page51a038.html

I’m on another thread and I really think these remarks belong here … I’m new at Apologetics and don’t really know how to do justice in defense of this:

If anyone believes in something at odds with a dogmatic proclamation, they are a heretic, and the canonical penalty for heresy is excommunication. Heretics are excommunicated because they choose to be, no other reason. The “Protestants” who maintained their heretodoxical positions could have recanted and come back into the folds of the Holy Mother Church, but they chose not to, so the reason we have thousands of denominations is because people are obstinate in their heterodoxy, not because the Church is doing its job, defending the purity of the faith.

 

[Annunciata]

Apologia100:

If anyone believes in something at odds with a dogmatic proclamation, they are a heretic, and the canonical penalty for heresy is excommunication. Heretics are excommunicated because they choose to be, no other reason. The “Protestants” who maintained their heretodoxical positions could have recanted and come back into the folds of the Holy Mother Church, but they chose not to, so the reason we have thousands of denominations is because people are obstinate in their heterodoxy, not because the Church is doing its job, defending the purity of the faith.

Thanks Apologia,
I sorta knew this, but I could never have articutate it as well as you have… guess I have do more studying. For now… leave this to the experts.
In Christ,
Annunciata

 

[Brendan]

The Church condems false doctrines, not people.

If someone, of their own volition, holds to false doctines, they themselves are holding on to condemnation, following falsehood.

Is not a Church of any type responsible for it’s own doctrinal integrity?

Would this person prefer that the Catholic Church be made up of some people that believed in the Real Presence, while others denied it? Some who believe that Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Light, while others in the same parish claim that There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet?

 

[jmm08]

There is a big difference between anathema and condemnation.

Protestants generally do not know this when they read the Council of Trent.

And as you personally know, a lot of Catholics don’t see the difference either.

The word anathema has meant different things over many years. Look it up in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

During the Countil of Trent, the word anathema described a formal part of the excommunication process (not currently practiced). To me, I think the word anathema today means to be separate from the Catholic Church. Definitely not in full communion with the Catholic Church. But the word anathema does not mean with 100% certainty damned to burn in hell.

But hey, I’m not an expert – I could be wrong.
I am planning to go to RCIA / RCIC this year.
I’ll check back to see if anyone corrects me.
If so, thanks.

 

[Apologia100]

Anathema and excommunication are the same thing. THe Catholic Church is the custodian and guardian of the deposit of faith given to us by Jesus Christ. When someone is declare an anathema, or are excommunicated, the Church is just declaring with its Magesterial authority that the person is outside of the grace of God. SInce you cannot get into heaven if you are outside of God’s grace, a decree of anathema is effectively saying that the person is condemned UNLESS THEY REPENT. However, the Church is not condemning the person, they are just identifying the fact that the person has placed themselves outside fo the grace of God by their own actions.

 

[jmm08]

Apologia100:

Anathema and excommunication are the same thing. … SInce you cannot get into heaven if you are outside of God’s grace, a decree of anathema is effectively saying that the person is condemned UNLESS THEY REPENT. However, the Church is not condemning the person, they are just identifying the fact that the person has placed themselves outside fo the grace of God by their own actions.

I do not disagree. However, Protestants who never were members of the Catholic Church cannot be excommunicated (because they were never in communion with the Catholic Church in the first place). We cannot easily say whether they destined to be eternally inside or outside of God’s Grace. Perhaps their journey will bring them closer to God at some point.

 

[Apologia100]

jmm08:

I do not disagree. However, Protestants who never were members of the Catholic Church cannot be excommunicated (because they were never in communion with the Catholic Church in the first place). We cannot easily say whether they destined to be eternally inside or outside of God’s Grace. Perhaps their journey will bring them closer to God at some point.

When the Council of Trent convened, everyone outside of the Orthodox Patriarchies was Catholic. Since the Council of Trent convened in 1563 and the Augsburg confession was published in 1530, it can be assumed that many of the initial member of the Evangelican Lutheran Church founded by Luther were baptised Catholic, and further married Catholic and agreed the baptize and raise their children Catholic. In fact, that was exactly the purpose of Trent, was to define any of the beliefs that caused a believer to be outside of the arms of the Church unambiguously. Essentially, the Church drew a line in the sand and said, IF you are with us get on this side of the line, if you are against us, get on that side of the line. Unfortunately, this was necessary to protect the doctrinal integrity of the church, which is was entrusted by Jesus Christ to do.