Countercultural Jesus?

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I just wanted to start a new thread lol.But seriously folks through scripture quotes prove to me that Christ was or was not countercultural .Would he be considered a “good American” or a rebel? Ready -set- discuss!!!
 
I would say Jesus was and is counter-cultural based on the fact that he taught with an authority not seen before and, by his many signs and wonders, was seen as a threat by the leaders of his time, as shown in the Scriptures such as the Gospel of John 11:46-50

“But some of them went to the Pharisees, and told them the things that Jesus had done. The chief priests therefore, and the Pharisees, gathered a council, and said: What do we, for this man doth many miracles? If we let him alone so, all will believe in him; and the Romans will come, and take away our place and nation. But one of them, named Caiphas, being the high priest that year, said to them: You know nothing. Neither do you consider that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.” (DRV)
 
Does Jesus contradict Paul’s call to be a good citizen of the empire?
 
How far does our loyalty to a state go? Are we called by the gospel to demand justice for the poor? Protect the downtrodden and weak?How far do people of faith go and how far into the political process. Are the Bishops right in speaking for new immigration bills?Does scripture say that God’s law supercedes human law?
 
juliamajor said:
How far does our loyalty to a state go? Are we called by the gospel to demand justice for the poor? Protect the downtrodden and weak?How far do people of faith go and how far into the political process. Are the Bishops right in speaking for new immigration bills?Does scripture say that God’s law supercedes human law?
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God’s law supercedes human law.
That does not mean tho that we are to forcibly establish governments that uphold His law.

It does mean:
  1. that as a Christian individual we are to be faithful to God’s law (whenever human law conflicts with it) - even if it involves suffering on our part (jail, economical, social prejudice).
  2. work towards establishing a just government. What is done by individuals varies. For all of voting age, it will consist of voting for individuals who have pledged to work for justice in accordance with God’s laws.
Nita
 
AnthonyM2 said:
I would say Jesus was and is counter-cultural based on the fact that he taught with an authority not seen before and, by his many signs and wonders, was seen as a threat by the leaders of his time, as shown in the Scriptures such as the Gospel of John 11:46-50
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I think it’s important to note that Jesus was countercultural because so many of his teachings ran against the common understanding of the Law as well as against social mores of the time:
  • He fraternized with tax collecters, prostitutes, and other public sinners.
  • He spoke freely with foreigners – the Roman centurion, for example.
  • He treated women with high regard.
  • He spoke to outcasts – Samaritans, for example.
  • He told stories that painted unfavorable pictures of pious Jews.
  • He approached lepers without fear.
  • He upset the market inside the Temple.
  • He taught compassion and charity in cases where the Law dictated brutal justice.
  • He railed against hypocritical religious leaders, sometimes insulting them (“brood of vipers”) in his righteous indignation.
  • He associated himself with a man who would ultimately be jailed for causing a public disturbance (John the Baptist).
  • He taught that one must make peace with his neighbor before making sacrifices to God.
As to the question about whether Jesus could be a “good American”:

I think FOX News Channel would have a heyday with it. Imagine Jesus gallavanting around with pro-choicers, gay rights activists, atheists, prostitutes, drug users and dealers, pornographers, gangsta rappers, and Wiccans while simultaneously and publicly bemoaning the fact that so much of middle America is on the fence and castigating the so-called conservative political and religious leaders of our nation for their hypocrisy.

Bill O’Reilley and Sean Hannity would excoriate him. The worst part, though, is that many people would listen to them

Peace,
Dante
 
DanteAlighieri said:
As to the question about whether Jesus could be a “good American”:

I think FOX News Channel would have a heyday with it. Imagine Jesus gallavanting around with pro-choicers, gay rights activists, atheists, prostitutes, drug users and dealers, pornographers, gangsta rappers, and Wiccans while simultaneously and publicly bemoaning the fact that so much of middle America is on the fence and castigating the so-called conservative political and religious leaders of our nation for their hypocrisy.

Bill O’Reilley and Sean Hannity would excoriate him. The worst part, though, is that many people would listen to them

Peace,
Dante
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I just can’t picture Jesus “gallavanting”…yeah, he’d associate with them with the aim of their repentence…but galavanting???:nope:
 
I am going to base my reply on the writings of our Holy Father, and in particular his work, “Truth and Tolerance” and say it would be wrong to say Jesus was “Countercultural”. Rather, Christ’s maessage and Christianity brings to perfection all that is good in a culture.
 
So picture this… Jesus comes to the US and begins with the law of the land… he tells you that you have misinterpreted the line from the constitution that tells you that inalienable rights of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness include the child in the womb. Therefore if a woman thinks her pursuit of happiness includes having an abortion it is wrong because she is denying the right to life of another … your rights end where anothers begin… then what if he went further and said happiness, true happiness is granted from our Creator and is only true happiness when we are obedient to his rule? True freedom, the same… comes from obedience to the Father. We are a self centered people, we think that true happiness and true freedom means we choose what makes us happy. Many people will argue that we know better what makes us happy, but do we really? If our way was so great then why does our own happiness not last forever? Why is it that we want/need more and more to make us happy? That is not true happiness is it? Say this to yourself… “I will be truly happy if________” What happens when ________ is acheived? Unless you chose full submission to God, there will always be more wants to achieve for happiness won’t there? Go ahead…try it!
 
Counter cultural, but only in so far as he would oppose those things in any culture that are defects in that culture, like lack of justice, lack of reverence, purity, etc. He would hardly qualify as a renegade.
 
I’ve heard this question before. Was Jesus a radical, a cultural revolutionary, as opposed to mainstream. As if he could be fit into one or another social agenda; an agenda with close ties to a specific world-view of sorts.

It’s a bit of a trick question to me. Like the one I got in 8th grade religion class - “True or false - Jesus was a good Jew”.

So, the way I see it, really neither. We can’t assign Jesus some kind of cultural or countercultural definition, because these are defined in terms of the world, and he is not about the world. So we can’t define Jesus. Rather, Jesus defines us. As individuals. Not as a culture.

-Tim
 
st_felicity said:
I just can’t picture Jesus “gallavanting”…yeah, he’d associate with them with the aim of their repentence…but galavanting???:nope:
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OK, point taken. But I used that word to illustrate the likely point of view of modern-day Pharisees, who would see such behavior as inappropriate, and would likely mock it.

Peace,
Dante
 
timotheos said:
I’ve heard this question before. Was Jesus a radical, a cultural revolutionary, as opposed to mainstream. As if he could be fit into one or another social agenda; an agenda with close ties to a specific world-view of sorts.

It’s a bit of a trick question to me. Like the one I got in 8th grade religion class - “True or false - Jesus was a good Jew”.

So, the way I see it, really neither. We can’t assign Jesus some kind of cultural or countercultural definition, because these are defined in terms of the world, and he is not about the world. So we can’t define Jesus. Rather, Jesus defines us. As individuals. Not as a culture.

-Tim
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Exactly, good answer! 👍
 
DanteAlighieri said:
OK, point taken. But I used that word to illustrate the likely point of view of modern-day Pharisees, who would see such behavior as inappropriate, and would likely mock it.

Peace,
Dante
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Oh yeah…that’s for certain.👍
 
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