Countering Evangelicals

[PlayDough]

As a Catholic, I’m bombarded by those who say that “all that matters is that we have faith and worship Him–the rest is just icing on the cake.” When I try to explain that the fullness of truth can be found in the Catholic church, I get sneers. “Who are you to say what God wants?” is a frequenty response.

I know that the Catholic church does not teach that those who attend the local Lutheran or Assembly of God, etc are damned. And when I tell others that the Catholic church does not condemn them, they say “Why does it matter where I go then?”

I don’t remember where I heard this, but I quote someone who said that “if you want to live the fullest, most rewarding life on Earth, then one does it through the Catholic church.” That really raises the hackles on them! The phrase “through the Catholic church” drives them nuts!

It seems to me that evangelicals take the personal relationship to the extreme that they deny the communal aspect. They acknowledge the importance of their church community, but when as a Catholic I try to emphasize the size and scope of the Catholic church, they see it as some impersonal hierarchy.

Sigh.

How does everyone else deal with this type of response?

 

[all4life]

I am currently doing a bible study on the Prophets and Apostles. If you want to tell how we, as Christians should be living, have them take a look at the book of James…this is how God wants us to be.

 

[Malachi4U]

(NIV) “18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.”

The only thing you can do is share your Faith, show them your Faith with ‘deeds’, let them see your Faith.

Live your Faith and don’t worry. Jesus promised He would be with His Church, His body, the Catholic Church. It is up to them to ‘see’ the truth. God has given them eyes to ‘see’ and ears to ‘hear’. Now it is their turn to take the scales off thier eyes.

Faith cannot be given, it can only be freely accepted. Let the Holy Spirit work with them after you plant the seed of truth. After all, not all who call on His name will be saved.

 

[Character_Zero]

When they talk about a “personal relationship,” and “faith alone,” ask them… “Where’s that in the Bible?”
Actually “faith alone” is only mentioned in one place, James 5:17.

 

[MrS]

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism

If Jesus were to come to your door on Sunday Morning, and ask you to go to church with Him, where would you take Him?

To “any church, it does not matter”

or

To the only one He Founded?

Mr S

 

[RomanRyan1088]

I once heard a very wise person say the following

“If you don’t believe in one thing, you will believe in everything”

 

[davidv]

It seems to me that the simple response is, to love them. However, to do so is often not so simple. Much depends on your relationship with them. How well do you know them? Do you intend on getting to know them better? Your post seems to indicate that you are trying not to debate them, which is good. You may win the debate, but lose a convert. If their minds are made up, then the only reasonable response may be to pray for them.

 

[Cat]

I am a recent convert (April 10, 2004) from Protestant evangelicalism.

I find your statement about personal relationship with Christ over communional life very interesting.

The current trend in Protestantism, especially among evangelicals, is to not commit to any one church, but to pursue a private relationship with Jesus, and go to a church or churches that helps you most to do this.

Home churches have proliferated, churches in which the father is the head of his “church” (family) and the members are his family, wife and children.

It’s kind of sad. You can see the reasons behind this; so much of evangelicalism divides the family into classes and clubs and Bible studies specific for each age group, so that when a family “goes to church,” they might not see each other for two or three hours. No wonder good fathers are trying to pull their families together.

Another kind of church that is “hot” is the non-denominational church. These churches have no affiliation or at best, a very loose affiliation, with a specific denomination, but basically, all the “doctrine,” statement of faith, policies and rules, etc. are set up by the local congregation. Even the “government” of such churches is determined locally (i.e., is the Senior Pastor the “Head” of the church, or are the “Elders” in charge," or a “Board of pastor(s) and elders” in charge?

The problem, as you can probably figure out, with this is that once the “head man” (or woman, in some cases) is gone (death, moving away, switching jobs, etc.), the church often doesn’t survive.

It’s a mess, all in pursuit of “personal relationship with Jesus.” To me, the scariest thing is that many Christians are just skipping church altogether and doing it on their own, just opening their Bibles and asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to them. Talk about arrogance!

Anyway, I agree that the best approach is to simply “be good.” Over the years, many Catholics did just that around me, and it was THE deciding factor that led me into the Catholic Church.

 

[Della]

What these people are doing is trying to eliminate theology from religion, but that is impossible. The greatest of our modern thinkers, G. K. Chesterton, wrote: “Theology is the only element of reason in religion; the reason that prevents it from being a mere emotion.”

Religion and ethics cannot be reduced to “let’s all just love God and try to get along”. It cannot be so reduced because it is not enough to satisfy the reality of our lives–the complexities of our needs: spiritual, emotional, psychological, and physical. Any one of those areas are in themselves complex. God is the God of complexities–of more than 2 dimensions, and so is his creation. Simple answers will not, therefore, suffice.

 

[Dan-Man916]

*all that matters is that we have faith and worship Him–the rest is just icing on the cake." *

Tell them that there is also a right way and a wrong way to love your children.
Is it enough that you say you love your child, and you put a roof over their head.
Or does loving actually mean something? Does loving demand a certain response?

Do we love children if we let them stay home if they don’t feel like going to school?
Do we love our children if we let them eat cookies and and candy all day instead of a balanced meal, regardles of whether or not they like to eat carrots.
Do we love our children if we let them watch 8 hours of television a day and then try to give them only an hour of quality time.

Love demands a response, and it demands a proper response.
To say we have faith in Him is like saying we love our children.
Unless we are actually doing what our children really need (worshiping him and living the way he wants us to), we aren’t really loving him.

See the parallel and the idea here?

 

[Catholic_Tom]

*all that matters is that we have faith and worship Him–the rest is just icing on the cake." *

Tell them that there is also a right way and a wrong way to love your children.
Is it enough that you say you love your child, and you put a roof over their head.
Or does loving actually mean something? Does loving demand a certain response?

Do we love children if we let them stay home if they don’t feel like going to school?
Do we love our children if we let them eat cookies and and candy all day instead of a balanced meal, regardles of whether or not they like to eat carrots.
Do we love our children if we let them watch 8 hours of television a day and then try to give them only an hour of quality time.

Love demands a response, and it demands a proper response.
To say we have faith in Him is like saying we love our children.
Unless we are actually doing what our children really need (worshiping him and living the way he wants us to), we aren’t really loving him.

See the parallel and the idea here?

Dan, that was outstanding, great example

 

[enanneman]

For me, the Sacraments are the key. A man can sit in his room and pray his heart out, and he may or may not feel God move within him. But, if he receives the Sacraments, he is guaranteed to receive God.

By his power he is present in the sacraments
# 1088 of the Catechism

My main problem with other denominations’ focus on one’s personal relationship with Christ is that is relies on how one “feels.” That is, “I feel the Spirit move within me, therefore my personal relationship with Jesus is strong, and I’ll be saved on the last day.” Feelings are incredibly subjective and affected by so many factors, from brain chemistry to atmospheric conditions to how much sleep one got last night. It seems that man is taking a great risk to assume salvation based on how strong he feels his relationship with Christ is.

I’ll take the Holy, Living and Apostolic Church, complete with its teachings on how I should live my live, over my own feelings every time.

God’s peace be with you.

Eric

 

[JimG]

I keep being drawn back to that great scene of the Last Judgment related by the Lord Himself in Matthew 25:31-46.

Jesus as King and judge divides everyone into two groups depending on what they have done or not done! “For as often as you did it for one of my least brothers, you did it for me.”

Note the surprise expressed by both groups.

Now place yourself in this picture, and imagine that one of those being judged should speak up and say, “Lord, there’s no need to judge me on what I’ve done; I was saved on Oct 6, 2004, and accepted you as my personal savior. It doesn’t matter what I’ve done or not done. This whole process is pointless.”

Well, I can imagine it. I just don’t want to be the one saying it to the Lord.

 

[enanneman]

JimG:

I keep being drawn back to that great scene of the Last Judgment related by the Lord Himself in Matthew 25:31-46.

Jesus as King and judge divides everyone into two groups depending on what they have done or not done! “For as often as you did it for one of my least brothers, you did it for me.”

Note the surprise expressed by both groups.

Now place yourself in this picture, and imagine that one of those being judged should speak up and say, “Lord, there’s no need to judge me on what I’ve done; I was saved on Oct 6, 2004, and accepted you as my personal savior. It doesn’t matter what I’ve done or not done. This whole process is pointless.”

Well, I can imagine it. I just don’t want to be the one saying it to the Lord.

I’ve never heard a clearer explanation of James’ “faith without works is dead.”

Thank you!

Eric

 

[sparkle]

PlayDough:

As a Catholic, I’m bombarded by those who say that “all that matters is that we have faith and worship Him–the rest is just icing on the cake.” When I try to explain that the fullness of truth can be found in the Catholic church, I get sneers.
It seems to me that evangelicals take the personal relationship to the extreme that they deny the communal aspect. They acknowledge the importance of their church community, but when as a Catholic I try to emphasize the size and scope of the Catholic church, they see it as some impersonal hierarchy.
/QUOTE]

I don’t know. Some people just don’t want to see anything other than their way of thinking. It’s ALL they’ve known!

I told my own mom just last night that “anyone who really studies church history will find so much Truth in the Catholic Church”.

Well she says “nonsense—so you’re saying your father is stupid then?” P.S. Dad is a preacher for 50 years-----
then she goes on to say such and such and this and that about the Priest scandal, the murdering and corruptness of priests in the past, etc., etc. in an attempt to justify Protestantism. It’s almost as if you can’t even discuss anything with these Evangelicals----not even your own family!!! Sigh~~ so know what you mean!!!
All they do is drudge up the past and it’s bad times----in a futile effort to make their point. These people will never change.

I think I’m learning to only concentrate my efforts on folks who honestly are interested in hearing and learning about the RCC.
To some, it really does NOT matter what church they go to. Church is church–no difference. It’s where they go on Sundays and that’s probably all the deeper they’ll ever look into it. I know plenty of these types.

Good Luck~~