Couples Counseling--how Do You Know You Have A Good Therapist?

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Friends: I’m not very happy with the “Christian” counselor hubby & I have gone to several times. He’s on the whimpish side, and sorry to say but he actually comes across as being a closet “gay” to me anyway, and I feel he totally sides with my husband and isn’t too keen on women quite frankly. Everything he has ever said sympathizes with my husband, gazing at him, telling me “hubby needs understanding”, etc., oh boo hoo. When I share my feelings about how hubby has been fired from every job in the last 16 years, the counselor says to my husband, “Oh that must be tough”…“a real blow to your self-esteem huh”…instead of telling him to “get his act together”, or something, totally not acknowledging my feelings at all, and p(name removed by moderator)ointing husband’s sheer irresponsibility. Nobody has ever gotten tough on my hubby, because he’s so passive-aggressive to the number, he always comes across as being SO innocent and “nice”…when he’s an irresponsible jerk so much of the time. It’s so hard.

Is it proper to call the same counseling venue and request a different person? Is it right to see one of my priests for counseling? I don’t know. Do Priests do this sort of thing? Can anyone tell me? Can anyone recommend a good book on dealing with passive aggressive people? Thanks so much for your help!
 
Hmmm. My priest does that sort of thing but I think he has a degree in counseling. I don’t know if every priest will do that - but I’m sure if you asked he could at least direct you to another counselor if you’re unhappy with this one. However, have you tried going aside privately with this counselor and talking about how you feel? Maybe there’s a reason he is approaching your situation this way. 🙂
 
Have you asked your husband how he feels about the counselor? If hubby dislikes him as well, you should probably shop around. But if not, I suggest bringing up these same issues with the counselor during a session, being just as frank with him as you can. Don’t worry, counselors are not thin-skinned! You might be able to work through the issues and start making some progress, or he might refer you to someone else. Yes, there are a few priests who are excellent counselors. Many others prefer to refer people to professionals, but an experienced priest will have, at least, some excellent advice about therapy in general and who to see in particular, so you should make an appointment with your pastor to and see what he thinks.
 
I’d be careful about a generic Christian counselor. Many protestants have a different view of marriage than we do. The whole submisssion issue, husband head of the wife etc. They may not see marriage as a sacrament- each spouse being a means of grace for the other. If that’s part of what’s happening, I’d find a good secular couselor before a Christian. Of course a faithful Catholic counselor would be my first choice. Some priests are trained in this area, though not all.

Do you only meet w/ the therapist as a couple or do you also meet individually?
–KCT
 
Sparkle,
I have to say that what first struck me was your phrase “Oh, boo hoo” about some of the troubles that your hubby has been having and your councelor’s reaction to them.
I know it’s hard when your partner’s problems directly affect your life or lifestyle (ie trouble holding a job and the financial stress that must put on everything). Maybe the councelor is trying to get to the root of your hubbie’s troubles to try to help you both since this is a major problem. I’d say to give him a chance, see where his approach leads over time (ie: months not weeks).

If your hubbie isn’t feeling like the councelor does any good at all, however, then I’d agree with the above suggestion to seek a new councelor. However, counceling is a slow process. Be careful not to ‘shop around’ just to find someone who will say what you want them to… if they just said what you want them to say then why wouldn’t you just say it yourself and skip the counceling?! 🙂

It’s hard to open up to a new point of view. I’m in the process of doing this myself, and trust me, I’ve had visits where I left totally mad at the councelor, and honestly thinking he’s a big mean vest-wearing weirdo with a colorful collection of color-coordinated socks. However, those seem to be the weeks that I am most intrigued by what he’s said, and it hits home most… ah…progress.
Best of luck, many blessings as you two go through this.
 
I think the first thing you need to do is talk with the counselor, tell him how you are feeling, and ask him what he sees. He may have an entirely different perspective since he has the opportunity to look into your marriage from an objective point of view.

And he may be trying to build your and your husband’s trust before slamming into any major issue. It’s very difficult to persuade anyone to change, but nearly impossible if you don’t know or trust the person who is attempting to intervene in your life in such a personal way.

Not all Christian counselors stack up together, that’s for sure, and this guy may or may not really stick to Christian counseling principles. Ask him if any of his training was from a Catholic or Christian university, and if he belongs to any Christian counseling associations (aacp - american association of christian counselors; ncasw - national christian association of social workers, etc.) Ask him if he’s familiar with Gary Chapman’s “The Five Languages of Love.” And in general, you could just ask him about his philosophy regarding Christian couples counseling. That would give a lot of information, if you haven’t done so already.

You could also search catholictherapists.com and see if one is in your area. Another option might be to seek telecounseling from Greg Popcak who I think is a wonderful authentically Catholic marriage and family therapist.
I’m also reminded of an article written by a Christian counselor, who had a couple attend their first session with him. He was getting some basic information with them and talking with them to see how they communicated, why they had come in, etc. By the end of the session he could tell the wife was agitated and asked her what was wrong. She responded she had expected him to use more Christian philosophy and Scripture directly into counseling, and was quite angry they had wasted their time doing this instead. He simply responded that this couple was not ready for that yet; they had communication and love/respect issues to work through first and he would not use Scripture references or anything like that until he could be sure the couple would not use those powerful words against each other (“Remember? St. Paul said you’re supposed to submit to me”, etc.)

Just a thought. There may be more method to this counselor’s madness than is apparent.
 
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sparkle:
Is it proper to call the same counseling venue and request a different person? Is it right to see one of my priests for counseling? I don’t know. Do Priests do this sort of thing? Can anyone tell me? Can anyone recommend a good book on dealing with passive aggressive people? Thanks so much for your help!
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If your DH is passive-aggressive, you’ve done pretty well just to get him to go to joint counseling. I would speak with the counselor privately about your concerns, but He could still be attempting to build rapport, and hte appearing to side with your DH is almost a required front to get someone who is poassive aggressive to trust the therapist enough that the later attempts to get your DH’s behavior straighteend out can’t be written off by your DH as a case of the counselor just siding with you.

It took me 6 years to get my wife into a joint counseling situation (she also has strong P.A. tendencies), and that only after she had a near total emotional meltdown (in mid February) from which she has only emerged (more or less) and resumed handing basic responsibilityes in the past 2-3 weeks… It was three months into counseling before there was enough familiarity for the priest we are seeing to start pointing out the contradictions in what she had been saying and doing herself.

I’m in a difficult spot because she’s had her personal therapists snowed and had been using them for backup to guilt me into going along with the PA demands the few times I’ve balked, but without he T ever realizing just how she was being used. However, ever since the meltdown (and corresponding drop in confidence on the effectiveness of her T of 4 years), I am feeling a lot better sticking to my guns and am doing what needs to be done and have been simply insisting she quit interfereing.

Yes, its a PITA for me to work all day and then have to do almost all of the dishes, most of the clothes-washing (she’s a SAHM), and cook supper about 1/3 of the time (and another 1/3 its leftovers), on top of almost all of the outside and home repair chiores. But the PA tricks “win” if I let them keep me from doing what is required to get the house where I feel good living in it. Yes, she’s not doing her “job” (and to some extent even sabatoges my attempts to make progress) but she’s realized that she can’t complain about me doing things in “her” turf my way when she’s not doing them at all, and now that I’ve quit rising to the bait (much) she’s not only having steadily less to complain about (wrt the state of the house) but she’s losing influence when refusing to take action herself on projects she wants done a certain way, becausse I’m no longer waiting for her to make up her mind before pressing on to at least basic completion.
 
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goravens:
You could also search catholictherapists.com and see if one is in your area. Another option might be to seek telecounseling from Greg Popcak who I think is a wonderful authentically Catholic marriage and family therapist.
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Thanks so much!

Could I have this phone number for Greg Popcak? Would really appreciate it! And I will look into catholictherapists.com too!

Realy appreciate it goravens!!!

God Bless~~
 
Sparkle ~
I can empathize with your situation, because I have been in your shoes before. At a couples counselor - everything seems clear as day to me, and the solutions even clearer. I got very impatient with the counselor because she seemed to empathize too much with my husband and seemed to ‘boo-hoo’ him way too much. Too me, she just needed to take out a sword, filet him out and be done with it.
But, I agree with Hearye’s thoughts - that your therapist my be crazy like a fox and is trying to get your husband to come to an epiphanal moment about himself without scaring him off, or overly offending him. He has to become a trusted friend, before he can accept the truth. I know my husband could only take so much truth about himself and the therapist could see that.
I think you should also have a one-on-one with the therapist too if all parties are willing. And perhaps your husband should too.
 
I think the best way to use a counselor it to figure out what you expect out of the counseling and make it the counselor’s job to keep moving it that way.

If you aren’t making progress with a counselor, it is entirely proper to tell the counselor this isn’t working well for you; perhaps you can problem solve, or if not get another counselor.

Few counselors are so good that they can help people without personality clashes getting a little bit in the way from time to time. If the counselor finds it personally offensive, then you know that counselor has personal issues and probably is too blind to lead you, so you have your answer – go away and don’t look back.

If they understand your problem with them, and are good, they may even have a recommendation of someone possibly better suited.

The next question is, how do you establish what you need? Well, perhaps independently you and hubby could write out what you see as issues of contention, issues of agreement, and areas where you feel something is missing.

Then read each other’s papers and come up with a combined one. Give this combined one to a prospective counselor and, if there is reason to, the original individual papers.

Also in writing, put what areas you wish the counselor to work on and establish any particular ground rules – such as divorce not being an option, etc. Then lay it on the counselor to guide session such that it works toward those goals. Gee, if you wrote things out like that, you’ve done a good deal of the counselor’s work already and maybe you can take it from there without one! 😃

The underlying assumption behind all this is that neither honestly wants the other to be miserable, and both are willing to have respectful, non-blaming conversation about the problem and willing to put some effort into changing for the better. Until you have that established, then you will work suspiciously against unknown motives of the other and progress will be very difficult to attain, if it can be at all.

Alan
 
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ridesawhitehors:
I got very impatient with the counselor because she seemed to empathize too much with my husband and seemed to ‘boo-hoo’ him way too much. Too me, she just needed to take out a sword, filet him out and be done with it.
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I just had to say that last part cracked me up… thanks for the chuckle… 🙂

I had already been seeing my own therapist before we went to our couples one. I didn’t know about catholictherapists.com so we ended up with a more “secular” one but I thought she did fine. I remember thinking while we would be sitting there that “hey - she’s not talking to me much.” I kept wanting to sort of chime in here and there, but what I ended up realizing ws that she was actually quite intuitive and perceptive and I should just shut up and watch. She knew how to ask him the right questions to really get to the root of the problem. So I kept going with, but in my mind, I saw it more like therapy for him. I still went to my own lady (they didn’t want or couldn’t counsel you and you and your spouse together), so this was the way to actually get him into therapy.

She whittled it all down and finally said to him that he needed to go to someone on his own for a diagnosis, and that if he didn’t she didn’t see how we would be able to get anywhere with our marriage. She actually said that if he didn’t go, she didn’t see hope for our marriage. Well… that pretty much drew the line in the sand. He didn’t go. And that was the real telling point for me. It was helpful that she got to the root of things with him. You can only push or make a person go so far, and when they want to stop, they stop.
 
Hmmm. My priest does that sort of thing but I think he has a degree in counseling. I don’t know if every priest will do that

which is why priests for the most part make horrible therapists. How can a powerful all male club understand a relationship between a man and a woman?
 
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YesORno:
Hmmm. My priest does that sort of thing but I think he has a degree in counseling. I don’t know if every priest will do that

which is why priests for the most part make horrible therapists. How can a powerful all male club understand a relationship between a man and a woman?
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Funny you should ask that. While noticing your handle I thought of various bipolar relationships; man/woman, night/day, land/sea, and religious/laity, single/married.

Then I always think in opposites, so I got to thinking, priest doing marital counseling Good, or priest doing marital counseling Bad. So supporting it being bad is the idea they don’t have empathy and perhaps can only intellectually but not through common experiential memory. That’s the downside of not having a peer. Peers can be good to commiserate with, too, which can be good.

The Good part could be this. As a member of a certain group, you’re biased toward certain confusions on things, if not outright blatant biases. If you ask a member outside the group, who does not share your problems, perhaps their very lack of empathy will allow them to give a more dispassionate view – one from a different angle than anyone inside the group can give because to some extent all married people suffer some common biases on looking at their own situation.

When I talk to someone whose problems I can only imagine but can’t relate, I like to try to listen, try to paraphrase and confirm so that at least I make sure I know what they mean. This gives me empathy as one dignified human being to another, even though the specifics of the situation I’ll never know. In fact, this aspect is not so much a yes/no thing, but a matter of degreee. Certain people are therapeutic by exposure somehow. These people, especially when combined with a degree and credentials, can do a lot of good without having to fit any certain category. Others know all the supposed right things to ask and How to Respond Properly, but they somehow lack the aura of, well, genuis in their trade.

There’s this one guy in the Knights who is so cheerful, all the time, will give an honest critique when asked, and has kids who are charming and even at an old teen/early 20 they seem to get along great and are an inspiration to parents. I don’t even know what his job is, but every time I talk to him I find something to chuckle at, feel better about, or learn something interesting. He might as well be a therapist. 🙂

Alan
 
In response to your question:

How do you know you have a good therapist?

It’s when both you and your husband get something out of the sessions. Not necessarily being united immediately, but both parties at least having one of the many veils lifted from their eyes so each can view the situation in a new light.

If only one person is getting the help they need but the other is not, then keep shopping.

Another good indication of a good counselor is one who doesn’t let you get away with sharing your emotions on a superficial level. The good ones can get you to admit your own weaknesses and flaws in such a way that it’s actually refreshing and uplifting rather than offensive.

From your post it seems you feel the trouble lies in your husband and not you…please, open your mind to the possibility that your past experiences have clouded your vision, making it difficult to see your husband for who he is. It’s easy for us to transfer negative behaviors/memories from our past onto similar behaviors of our present mate. I’m not suggesting he’s not at fault and you are the cause…only that our pasts really muddle things up for us and it’s good to keep that in mind.

I’d still suggest continuing to shop around for another counselor.
Good luck to you.
 
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