Courage in the Gayborhood

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There are treatments for schizophrenia, they work at the atomic level so to speak.
 
Guess my parish is equally scandalous, we are “every sin” friendly as in we welcome sinners. We do not require anyone to pass a test that proves they have attained perfection in this life before they can be a part of our parish family.

We regularly offer the Sacrament of Confession that gives second as well as 5,812,341st chances.

Makes me wonder, I’ve never seen a blogger complain about an AA or NA group meeting at a Parish, calling it a “drunkard and junkie friendly parish”.

Not one word complaining about divorce support groups nor up in arms because the Church allows people in irregular marriages to attend Mass and social activities and study groups.

Every time something goes around about St Paul’s NYC, I visit both their website and the OASP website. Never once have I seen an event geared at celebrating sin or encouragement to sin.

There are no same-sex wedding announcements. No “gay single mingle speed dating”.

Reading a controversial book? Adults are permitted to read controversial books and discuss them. The announcement for that particular meeting of the book club simply said something about lively discussion, it did not say “come and talk about this really racy book and if we are lucky we might even act out some of the best parts!!”

The article also discusses a YouTube video made by some members of the OASP support group. Does that video begin with the Pastor saying “I am Father X, and I approve this message”?

Gay people are not lepers. We cannot expect to see a soul come to Christ if we have forbidden them to cross the threshold and warm themselves by our fire?
 
Perhaps I am reading the article incorrectly, but I don’t think he is saying he has an issue with LGBTQ ministries in church. I see him saying that any LGBTQ ministry associated with a church should adhere to church teaching. I think that makes sense, and should not be seen as offensive, insensitive, or marginalizing.

I went to OSP’s webpage. There is not a lot of detail there regarding what they teach/promote. There are a couple outings on their calendar that seem questionable from a Church point of view like the social event at the local gay bar/club.

The author seems ok with Courage being present at the church and wishes they were allowed to promote their events. He also expresses a desire for a group that is faithful to church teaching, but does not assume that every person with SSA has broken chastity (this is his criticism of Courage). So, I don’t think it is fair to characterize his article as saying gay people are not welcome.
 
I’m not sure how, though.

Maybe, one could say that the qualitative differences between sins means that it’s worse to welcome gay people than it is to welcome addicts.

By the same token, one could argue that welcoming in worse sinners is actually doing more good than welcoming in less bad sinners.
 
on_the_hill said:
Maybe, one could say that the qualitative differences between sins means that it’s worse to welcome gay people than it is to welcome addicts.
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First, I’d like to know who is saying that gay people should not be welcomed?

The author of the article is not saying that. He is, in fact, a gay man as he mentioned in his article. He is, in fact, in search of a ministry to join that will help him and support him in his struggles to live as a faithful Catholic with same sex attraction.

Let’s not get distracted from what the author is actually saying…
 
That’s also a straw man. There was nothing that suggested that gay people shouldn’t be welcomed.
 
I didn’t read the article, but as to “doctrinal schizophrenia,” could part of it be the fact that gay or other members of the LGBT community are coming from diverse experiences and situations?

That is, each person will have to be accompanied in a way that responds to his or her own place. This could mean someone who is still in an active homosexual relationship — but who wants to start coming back to church. How do we get THAT person closer to Christ? This could also mean a young gay man who has been rejected by his family and has only recently been out of the closet. How do we get THAT person closer to Christ?

Both gay, both same-sex attracted, but with very different experiences.

The problem with some perspectives in the Church is that they want a simplistic, black and white answer. They won’t go so far as conversion therapy. But they still want a simple answer to lessen the cognitive dissonance that occurs when reconciling messy human reality with objective church teaching.

So in a way, “doctrinal schizophrenia” is expected when you’re dealing with very different people with very different experiences in very different stages on their journey to Christ in living out an active Catholic life.
 
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mrsdizzyd said:
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on_the_hill:
Maybe, one could say that the qualitative differences between sins means that it’s worse to welcome gay people than it is to welcome addicts.
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First, I’d like to know who is saying that gay people should not be welcomed?

The author of the article is not saying that. He is, in fact, a gay man as he mentioned in his article. He is, in fact, in search of a ministry to join that will help him and support him in his struggles to live as a faithful Catholic with same sex attraction.

Let’s not get distracted from what the author is actually saying…
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I’m not saying that. I’m merely presenting hypotheticals as to why the argument may be a strawman, because I’m not sure why it is.
 
“Doctrinal schizophrenia” was my phrase, not that of the author of the article, who made no reference to it.

The author is apparently a gay man who has reconciled with the Church and accepts Catholic teaching as to matters of sex and chastity. He is puzzled that the parish welcomes gay parishioners but ignores Catholic teaching on sex. That is why the parish Courage chapter is not allowed to advertise their events in the parish bulletin. Courage does accept Catholic doctrine, but the parish seems to fear that an organization which accepts Catholic teaching might be offensive to other parishioners.

A parish AAA chapter does not reject Catholic teaching. Nor would it have such events as a “pub crawl.”

The problem is not that the parish welcomes sinners. Every parish does that. The problem is that the parish seems to downplay Catholic teaching.
 
Then what is the strawman?

I only had two semesters of philosophy in college, and very little in the way of logic and/or rhetoric.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Makes me wonder, I’ve never seen a blogger complain about an AA or NA group meeting at a Parish, calling it a “drunkard and junkie friendly parish”.
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As far as I’m aware, AA is designed around overcoming alcohol, which is in line with Catholic teaching. The author is taking issue with the fact that this group appears to oppose Catholic teaching on sexual morality:
but rather that its mission and events imply that having gay sex is morally acceptable and that the Church should recognize the sacramentality of same-sex “marriages.”

…

The rest of the participants dismissed the idea that gay sex was morally problematic. It didn’t take long for the film to make clear that by “inclusion and acceptance,” it meant sacramentalizing same-sex marriages.
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That’s where the difference lies. A couple potential problems is that:
  1. It gives a false impression of the Church’s teaching, appearing supportive of things it is against.
  2. It can be discouraging to those faithful Catholics with SSA seeking support groups that emphasize overcoming, rather than embracing, their sexuality.
 
She was saying that they weren’t welcome or something like that, but that wasn’t what the blogger was saying.
 
JimG said:
He is puzzled that the parish welcomes gay parishioners but ignores Catholic teaching on sex.
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This statement (comes up often in these discussions) is odd to me. Is the assumption that gay Catholics somehow do not already KNOW the Church’s teaching on sexual morality?

Should every meeting of every group be a sermon on sin?

Let’s again imagine there is an AA group at a parish. Is the parish “ignoring the Catholic teaching on moderation in alcohol” if the meeting has a topic other than “The Church’s Teachings on Moderation in Alcohol”?

What about the Youth Ministry. Would the topic every week be “The Church’s Teaching on Chastity”.

Why, then, should a meeting for LGBTQ Catholics be expected “Meet again this week as we once again discuss ‘The Church’s Teaching on Sexuality’. This is part 503 of an infinite part session. Light refreshments will be served”

Catholics can go to pubs. Catholics can go dancing. Catholics can talk about things other than sin.
JimG said:
hat is why the parish Courage chapter is not allowed to advertise their events in the parish bulletin.
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As someone who does a parish bulletin, every week there is someone who is “not allowed to advertise”. Limited space, strict deadlines, unless the author can provide an official policy that states “Courage is not advertise in the bulletin” I will remain skeptical of that claim.
 
I would agree that not every sermon and meeting discussion should be about sin, and I think the author would agree with that too. I think what he sees as a problem is that these parishes are so focused about being “welcoming” and “inclusive” that ignore church teaching on sexuality and seem to turn a blind eye or even encourage unchaste homosexual relationships. This leaves gay people who are actually trying to chastely live out the Church’s teachings to feel ignored, isolated, and lacking a support system.

At least, that is my take on the article.
 
I think you should read the article again. I think you have misinterpreted what the author is saying. He is not suggesting that people should be preached at all the time. He gives an example of a program for Catholics with SSA that he thinks should be implemented in NYC. It is the program Eve Tushnet is a part of.

Also, he did not say they refused to print Courage events. He said the parish leadership instructed Courage not to advertise their events because people might be offended.
 
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