Cousin believes he is a strong Catholic yet

[ElizaE]

I just had a rather heated discussion with my cousin yesterday. We were discussing the Catholic Church. He mentioned going to his girlfriends Non-denomenational Christian Church and after the service he told her point blank that the whole service was bonkers (he didn’t say bonkers, but you get the picture) and that he would never convert from the Catholic Church (good for him).

I am a medical student, and he is doing his fellowship. So we are both very well versed in medicine. I usually try to not discuss sexual and fertility issues but we somehow got on the topic when he mentioned that the Church has antiquated ideas about birth control and that people still think that the rhythm method works. I was a bit taken aback. I asked him what he knew about NFP which was very little except to say tentatively that 1 in mucus is fertile. I stated that I have been using Creighton and that I’m not pregnant and it is wonderful. He had no idea what Creighton, Billings or Sympathothermal was. He stated that he has no problem perscribing birth control, performing tubal ligation or vasectomies (didn’t even know that this was against his faith).

We had a long discussion. He is rather pigheaded and so am I, so neither of us would let it go. He gave a scenerio of a devout Catholic 15 yo girl who is pressured to have sex. I stated that a very devout Catholic girl would not be having a boyfriend much less have a sex at 15. I said everyone can make a mistake and God forgives but it doesn’t mean that the Chruch needs to change its teachings about sex just so a 15 year old girl can knock boots with her boyfriend and use birth control with the Church’s approval.

He then came up with a weird argument. He stated that even a lustful thought of a man or a woman about a partner or a stranger that is not acted upon and ended in the sexual act could be constructed a depriving of a human life since such an act could have potentially produced a child . Still kind of scratching my head over that one and I think that he was pulling my leg because he was not doing that well with the argument.

I tried to pin him down where he believed that conception and human life begins at which time he said that it is when the thought of sex enters a person’s mind. Kinda stupid response. I think we must have talked for 2 or more hours about this but I told him that he should at least check out the research articles about Creighton and see what he thinks about it. I really don’t know what possessed me to be so vocal. I usually let things go, but not this time. We will see if he reads anything.

 

[JimG]

He stated that even a lustful thought of a man or a woman about a partner or a stranger that is not acted upon and ended in the sexual act could be constructed a depriving of a human life since such an act could have potentially produced a child . Still kind of scratching my head over that one and I think that he was pulling my leg because he was not doing that well with the argument.

I tried to pin him down where he believed that conception and human life begins at which time he said that it is when the thought of sex enters a person’s mind.

That is just the most hilarious thing I’ve heard for a long time!!!

Let’s see where this leads us: I have a lustful thought–I am obligated to immediately go have sex with the object of my lust, otherwise I am contracepting!!!

A new and distinct human individual begins, oh, not at conception, but when the thought of sex first enters my mind!!

You were beating him up in the argument and he was grasping at straws, and pretty thin ones at that!

 

[FCEGM]

. . .
I tried to pin him down where he believed that conception and human life begins at which time he said that it is when the thought of sex enters a person’s mind. Kinda stupid response. I think we must have talked for 2 or more hours about this but I told him that he should at least check out the research articles about Creighton and see what he thinks about it. I really don’t know what possessed me to be so vocal. I usually let things go, but not this time. We will see if he reads anything.

Eliza, if he is open to reading on the topic from a Catholic perspective, this article by Dr. Janet Smith would be a good one:

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html

Also, Dr. Smith’s work, Why Humanae Vitae Was Right - which is linked at the sight - would be a worthwhile read for him. I pray he doesn’t prefer ignorance so as not to have to make some hard choices as he practices medicine.

 

[ElizaE]

Thank you for your replies. When I got home after the conversation, I felt very uncomfortable. I wondered if I should have kept my mouth shut, but the more and more I think about it, the more I think that the Holy Spirit made me visit my uncle that night and had my cousin come over at the same time. Maybe I was a vehicle for God that night. Maybe my cousin will at least start studying his faith a little more.

The next morning my aunt called me and said that my uncle told her about the conversation. She said, “You have to understand, he is a single male who has a girlfriend. He doesn’t want the Church to be right because he would have to change what he is doing not only in the hospital but also in his own bedroom. He doesn’t want to do that, therefore, the Church is wrong.” Then I understood why he was so stubborn and holding on for dear life to his beliefs.

In the very least, I really hope he looks at the medical journals and sees that NFP is a wonderful, safe and natural way to plan a family.

God bless

 

[mercygate]

Go to omsoul and get him a free CD of Janet Smith’s talk, “Contraception: Why Not.” Just ask him to do you a personal favor and listen to it. Apologize for anything you said that might have upset him (even if you didn’t DO anything). And ask him, just as a favor to you because of your long friendship, to listen.

He’ll change his heart (but maybe not TODAY).

 

[Norseman82]

He then came up with a weird argument. He stated that even a lustful thought of a man or a woman about a partner or a stranger that is not acted upon and ended in the sexual act could be constructed a depriving of a human life since such an act could have potentially produced a child . Still kind of scratching my head over that one and I think that he was pulling my leg because he was not doing that well with the argument.

You know, sometimes the most charitable thing one can do is to point blank tell someone, “for all your education, that is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard”.