Cristero War

[aball1035]

As you probably know, the movie For Greater Glory is coming out, and I’m wondering about how “noble” a cause it was before I cheer on those Cristeros.

I thought people were supposed to respect the government-even an anti-Catholic one-and oppose violent revolution? For example, the early Christians did not overthrow nor fight against the Romans. Why did the Cristeros? What was the Vatican’s position to them?

 

[The_Scott]

As you probably know, the movie For Greater Glory is coming out, and I’m wondering about how “noble” a cause it was before I cheer on those Cristeros.

I thought people were supposed to respect the government-even an anti-Catholic one-and oppose violent revolution? For example, the early Christians did not overthrow nor fight against the Romans. Why did the Cristeros? What was the Vatican’s position to them?

There is such a thing as a just war. In this case, we should see if a law is just or not. If the law is determined to be unjust, then we have no obligation to follow that law. This is the same thing for governments.

A good place to start, for Thomas Aquinas’ definition of Just War, would be here: ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/SS/SS040.html .

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

This movie could glorify Catholicism, and maybe people will be drawn to Catholicism after watching it.

 

[JimG]

“The Mexican government portrays the Cristiada as a rebellion because the Cristeros “rebelled” against the enforcement of the Calles Law. But rebellion is hardly a fitting way to describe an attempt to restore customs in place for centuries before the Mexican Revolution. Catholics see the Cristiada as a response, albeit a violent one, to unjust persecution because Catholics were persecuted by unjust laws that inhibited their religious freedom.”

From a Zenit interview with a Mexican historian here.

The Cristero War was a response to severe official government persecution of Catholics in Mexico. Persecution invites response.

 

[aball1035]

“The Mexican government portrays the Cristiada as a rebellion because the Cristeros “rebelled” against the enforcement of the Calles Law. But rebellion is hardly a fitting way to describe an attempt to restore customs in place for centuries before the Mexican Revolution. Catholics see the Cristiada as a response, albeit a violent one, to unjust persecution because Catholics were persecuted by unjust laws that inhibited their religious freedom.”

From a Zenit interview with a Mexican historian here.

The Cristero War was a response to severe official government persecution of Catholics in Mexico. Persecution invites response.

Thanks for your response! I’m still confused though-why did the early Christian martyrs never “respond”?

 

[JimG]

Thanks for your response! I’m still confused though-why did the early Christian martyrs never “respond”?

The earliest Christian martyrs had no capacity to respond. They began as a small community within a large pagan empire.

The situation was quite different in Mexico, which had been a largely Catholic nation with Catholic traditions and institutions for centuries, all of which were ruthlessly repressed when a revolutionary communist government came to power.

And it was not the Church which waged this war against repression, it was Catholic faithful. The Church as an institution remained what it was; you didn’t find bishops and priests taking up arms, rather you found Catholic people taking up arms against government repression.

A similar situation occurred after the French revolution when the Church was brutally repressed, parishes closed, priests sent away, monasteries closed. French peasants who wanted nothing more than their traditions and their parishes mounted a revolt against the repression. (See the book “For Altar and Throne.”)

Such repression occurs quite often throughout history. In communist Vietnam, for example, the Church is repressed, but Catholics have little capacity to fight back.

The Church does not require pacifism of its faithful.

 

[JimG]

Here is a good discussion of the film from the Catholic World Report:

When the Catholic Faith Was Outlawed

PS–Here’s another article about the matter, from the National Catholic Register blog:

ncregister.com/daily-news/todaygreater-glory-we-need-to-ask-for-the-strength-to-be-cristeros/#ixzz1wYXEE6pD

 

[Viki63]

I just saw For Greater Glory yesterday, and found it an inspiring and touching story (but then I like action movies, I’m no elitist). The part about Blessed Jose, the 14 year old who was martyred for his faith, is heart-wrenching. I still can’t understand how a group of adults could stand around and watch a teenager be tortured and murdered in cold blood – including his parents and Godfather – didn’t Mexico have any concept of protecting children in that epoch? Or were 14 year olds considered adults then?
But it was a very good movie, which is getting a lot of negative flack due to its religious content.

 

[mt_gooseberry]

My DH was born and raised in one of the states in Mexico where the Cristero War occured (present-day Nayarit). He had never even heard of it. Sadly, Mexico is becoming rapidly secularized…I was appalled by the things I saw when I lived down there. It makes me weep to think of the tens of thousands of people who gave their lives to protect Catholicism so that their descendants could forget and abandon all they died to preserve.

 

[JimG]

My DH was born and raised in one of the states in Mexico where the Cristero War occured (present-day Nayarit). He had never even heard of it. Sadly, Mexico is becoming rapidly secularized…I was appalled by the things I saw when I lived down there. It makes me weep to think of the tens of thousands of people who gave their lives to protect Catholicism so that their descendants could forget and abandon all they died to preserve.

The suppression of the Catholic Church which resulted in the outbreak of the Cristero rebellion is an episode which has been actively suppressed in Mexico. Many children attending schools have not heard of it at all, because it was deliberately never mentioned.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

As you probably know, the movie For Greater Glory is coming out, and I’m wondering about how “noble” a cause it was before I cheer on those Cristeros.I thought people were supposed to respect the government-even an anti-Catholic one-and oppose violent revolution? For example, the early Christians did not overthrow nor fight against the Romans. Why did the Cristeros? What was the Vatican’s position to them?

The Cristero uprising was preceded by non-violent demonstrations. It wasn’t until the government began killing priests, using Catholic churches as animal stables and persecuting Catholics that men stood up and began pushing back—enough so that today, Mexicans can go to Mass in Mexico.

Though the Mexican population is 95% Catholic, Mexico has been the victim of masonic governments since the independence from Spain in 1810. I would recommend you read a fascinating book Blood Drenched Altars which explains the story of Mexico.

Realize that no freedom is free, and the freedoms you enjoy today as a Catholic are because of the bloody sacrifices of people fighting for freedom. It’s easy to be a pacifist and have others fight for your freedoms and I suppose everyone could have sat back and let tyrants like Hitler and Stalin take over the entire planet, but not so, according to the Church and the Bible. Read the battles waged by Joshua in the Old Testament; and read about the holy Crusades which waged war in defense of pilgrims who were being slaughtered and enslaved.

God choose men of action who stand up for what they believe who are afraid of shedding their blood in defense of others.I would suggest you read what the Church teaches on a just war. Furthermore, it was Jesus who lavished praise on the Roman Centurion for his strong faith. Centurions were men who commanded 100 soldiers into battle. Nowhere did Jesus condemn him for being a soldier. Furthermore, Jesus in one of His parables explains:

*“What king, about to go to make war against another king, doth not first sit down, and think whether he be able, with ten thousand, to meet him that, with twenty thousand, cometh against him?”–Luke 14:31 *

The Cristero war is a well documented even of injustice waged against people who simply wanted to practice their religion. The events depicted in the movie are merely a snapshot of what occurred between 1926-1929. Though the movie ends with a truce in 1929, the conflict broke out again after the government rounded up all the Cristero leaders and murdered them. Thus the second uprising continued through 1940. Subsequently. Plutarco Elias Calles, was arrested and exiled. But the movie does show the martyrdom of people who refused to

The conflicts is well documented in many books about the Cristiada, and plenty of photographs exist of the atrocities: i.e. military soldiers collecting Cristero heads on ropes to miles of corpses hanging from telephone posts. Here is a famous photo of Fr. Miguel Pro who was executed by the government:


Incidentally, it wasn’t until the early 1993 that the Mexican government allowed priests to wear their clerical garb in public.

The big question is this: Would you stand up and use force to defend your wife and children from an attacker?

 

[TarkanAttila]

The earliest Christian martyrs had no capacity to respond. They began as a small community within a large pagan empire.

The Church does not require pacifism of its faithful.

^ This. Many died peacefully at the hands of the pagan Roman Empire, yet how many more would have died at the hands of the Empire had the early Christians made themselves the blood enemies of Rome!

Compare the peaceful co-existence of Christians with the Jewish-Roman Wars. While Christians subsisted and even thrived in the later Empire, the Jews were almost wiped off of the face of the Earth. The Temple, and Jerusalem herself, were destroyed. And they earned the (unjustified) scorn of Europeans for centuries to come. With those rebellions they made themselves and their progeny for centuries greatly hated.

The lesson? There is a time and a place for fighting. And it usually is not when you are a tiny, tiny minority within the borders of your country.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

There is a time and a place for fighting. And it usually is not when you are a tiny, tiny minority within the borders of your country.

In the case of the Cristero uprising, Mexicans regained their religious freedom and President Calles, who began the bloody persecution was subsequently arrested and exiled.

 

[tafan]

In the case of the Cristero uprising, Mexicans regained their religious freedom and President Calles, who began the bloody persecution was subsequently arrested and exiled.

FYI: Calles was not exiled until 7 years after the war had ended.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

FYI: Calles was not exiled until 7 years after the war had ended.

The Cristero uprising took place in two epochs. The first ended in 1929 (as shown in the movie For Greater Glory but after the government reneged on its promises and rounded up and murdered many of the Cristero leaders, a second uprising ensued in the early 30s which lasted through 1940.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

^ This. Many died peacefully at the hands of the pagan Roman Empire, yet how many more would have died at the hands of the Empire had the early Christians made themselves the blood enemies of Rome!

mAybe the problem is that most people seem to forget history. The reason why the persecution of the Early Christians ended is because of the Edict of Milan. It was the warrior emperor Constantine who saw a sign in the sky, a cross with the words IN HOC SIGNO VINCES or IN THIS SIGN CONQUER Constantine’s armies placed the sign of the cross on their shields and conquered their enemies. Constantine liberated the Christians from persecution and made Christianity legal. It was also his mother St. Helen who ventured into the Holy Land to find the relics of True Cross.

So yes, God sometimes uses armies to liberate His people. Furthermore the early Christians didn’t die a peaceful death. Many were used as human torches to light the spectacles of others being devoured by wild beasts. Their deaths were violent, bloody and full of terror.

 

[tafan]

The Cristero uprising took place in two epochs. The first ended in 1929 (as shown in the movie For Greater Glory but after the government reneged on its promises and rounded up and murdered many of the Cristero leaders, a second uprising ensued in the early 30s which lasted through 1940.

I am not aware of an active Cristero War in the 1930s; while I know the government reneged on many of its promises, and persecution was still high in the 1930s, was there an active war against the government by Catholics then?

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I am not aware of an active Cristero War in the 1930s; while I know the government reneged on many of its promises, and persecution was still high in the 1930s, was there an active war against the government by Catholics then?

A second uprising was mobilized by the remaining Cristeros after the government reneged on its promises. Religious persecution expanded from military persecution to the indoctrination of Mexican children. In 1934 President called for a revolution of conscience with the intent of indoctrinating children into socialist education. “El Grito de Guadalajara” marked the beginning of a series of reforms to the educational system, thus a new organized movement by the Cristeros, known as “La Segunda” (Second Cristiada) took effect, which included Catholic families joining underground schools for educating their children, as the Mexican government threatened parents with prison if they sent their children to Catholic schools.

 

[TarkanAttila]

mAybe the problem is that most people seem to forget history. The reason why the persecution of the Early Christians ended is because of the Edict of Milan. It was the warrior emperor Constantine who saw a sign in the sky, a cross with the words IN HOC SIGNO VINCES or IN THIS SIGN CONQUER Constantine’s armies placed the sign of the cross on their shields and conquered their enemies. Constantine liberated the Christians from persecution and made Christianity legal. It was also his mother St. Helen who ventured into the Holy Land to find the relics of True Cross.

So yes, God sometimes uses armies to liberate His people. Furthermore the early Christians didn’t die a peaceful death. Many were used as human torches to light the spectacles of others being devoured by wild beasts. Their deaths were violent, bloody and full of terror.

Yes, this is true. But did the early martyrs spill a drop of the blood of the Romans? Nary a drop!

Constantine did make Christianity legal, and we do believe he died a baptised Christian. And yes, he did fight under the RHO CHI (PX).

But IIRC, the Battle of the Milvian Bridge was not a particularly religious battle, never mind a battle (in the eyes of Constantine) between Christianity and paganism.

My point was that it was not until Christians started becoming the economic and military majority in Europe that they used military power against heresies and against opponents to Christianity (like the Moslems who conquered Spain and almost conquered France). Because we had the power to protect the faith in the areas where it was being attacked.

We did not have the military power to protect ourselves from persecution in the 200s, so we kept spreading Christianity peacefully throughout the Empire, and let it persecution wash over our backs like rain on a duck’s, even when it meant death. In fact, we clung to God stronger when we had no other recourse.

 

[tafan]

A second uprising was mobilized by the remaining Cristeros after the government reneged on its promises. Religious persecution expanded from military persecution to the indoctrination of Mexican children. In 1934 President called for a revolution of conscience with the intent of indoctrinating children into socialist education. “El Grito de Guadalajara” marked the beginning of a series of reforms to the educational system, thus a new organized movement by the Cristeros, known as “La Segunda” (Second Cristiada) took effect, which included Catholic families joining underground schools for educating their children, as the Mexican government threatened parents with prison if they sent their children to Catholic schools.

This I knew about, but was there an actual war?