Criticising Publicly Erring Priests

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sealabeag

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So there have been a number of threads recently regarding or touching on certain priests, some of a more traditionalist bent, some of a “leftist” bent. In these threads some simply point out the perceived errors these priests are falling into, in their blogs or articles or talks, and of course some outright attack and criticise, although that is definitely the minority.
Obviously the latter is sinful, priests are due our respect, and I usually try to err on the side of respectful rather than critical.
However, I’m beginning to wonder if it is okay even to simply point out the flaws in orthodoxy of a priest. Part of me says that the faithful need to be alerted to error but the other half says to tread very carefully as these are the Lord’s anointed ministers, even if falling into grave error.
Should such criticism be left to Bishops and fellow priests? Should the laity speak loudly when faced with wayward shepherds?

Part of the reason I ask is because I was planning on compiling a list of the problematic views of a certain “media” priest, as I find his views very troubling and having the potential to lead many into sin. However I’m now wondering if I should.

Thoughts?

And I didn’t name any individuals intentionally, so I’d prefer others don’t either, but I know people will do as they please anyway.
 
I detest the attitude many have towards the priest and hierarchy, but with sins and unorthodox beliefs, I simply do this to correct a priest if I need to (note: need isn’t online, and also isn’t based on opinion):

Say a priest denies Jesus is of the same substance as the Father, I will not say he is wrong outright but instead “Father, doesn’t the creed said in the liturgy say xyz?” Or if a priest is doing an objective mortal sin, " Father, doesn’t it say xyz in the moral teaching in the church? "

Under no circumstances will I comment on his intentions, or accuse him of actual mortal sin. If he continues in his belief, or actions, and justifies it, then I accept that this is what he is doing/saying and move on.

You only should do this when you need to, if another priest, or a bishop is doing it, there is nothing to say. You don’t need to add your comment. I think need should be local, for instance a priest teaching clear heresy in the pulpit, and no one else knows, or a priest sinning right in front of.you.

Moreover, for “clear heresy” it must be absolutely clear, your intuition is not enough, your feeling the opinion is wrong or off isn’t enough either. Only when with the most charitable interpretation of contradicts something based in scripture and sacred tradition that IS ALSO PUT FORWARD BY THE MAGISTERIUM TO BELIEVE and you can CITE it should you even think of this. If he gives a speculation, or an opinion not yet ruled on, but only SEEMS unorthodox, leave it. You may very well be wrong.

It would be best to not compile any list, especially if others have said things, especially if those others are clerics. Just leave it. If it is a serious matter no one has dealt with, send a letter to the bishop. If it is never handled, maybe correct him where he has publicly said the things like I advise above, if it persist, leave it and pray.
 
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sealabeag said:
So there have been a number of threads recently regarding or touching on certain priests
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This is another example of where I pine for our previous forum rules. It used to be clear that there was no disparaging of clergy permitted on these forums. Now, it seems to require quite the leap across the line of acceptability before anything is regulated in that respect.
 
This is actually a great answer and I’d never thought of it. I suppose in the case of a “media” priest who is not in one’s own diocese or even country that isn’t so practical, though. But still not impossible I suppose.
 
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I’d love to. But he’s a very popular priest involved in the media who I’d imagine is too busy to talk to me. Worth a shot though, I guess. I’d imagine I’d as soon get a reply from Pope Francis lol.
 
sealabeag said:
Part of the reason I ask is because I was planning on compiling a list of the problematic views of a certain “media” priest, as I find his views very troubling and having the potential to lead many into sin. However I’m now wondering if I should.
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It all depends on what you plan on doing with your list.

To start a thread to air your list? No. Talking about a priest, discussing his flaws here does nothing. No one here can change anything even if he was doing something wrong.

Either contact someone that is superior to him, or leave it alone.

You did see that thread about this topic earlier today, didn’t you?
 
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I have no ‘answer’ I’m confident in.

But for right now my own perspective and inclination is similar to that which I’m trying to learn to live by with my own parents:

To respectfully listen and accompany and keep silence, as my default position. And to try to give them the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. To let them have their way in everything except sin. AND… if while I’m doing this, my conscience presses me with cries that seem to me unmistakably to come from the love of God, so that I am convicted in my conscience that to keep my mouth shut would be a sin? Then reluctantly, and carefully, on a case by case basis, I speak.

I don’t know if I even think it’s possible to come up with a reliable formula or contextual rule, apart from that. My rule (that I’m trying to follow, however poor I am at it in practice (pray for my patience and attention to be well focused on the right things, please!)) is currently silence. And then speaking is the exception, and that only when I am convinced that the urging on my heart is from God.

So… suggestion-wise, I can only recommend taking whatever steps are helpful to improve your own discernment of spirits, to form your own conscience well, and to serve God as best you can in other ways in your life. So that you’re prepared to make these decisions on a case by case basis.

Just my $0.02. Maybe others have much better ideas or even official magisterial ‘answers’.
 
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Media priest, eh? Just don’t believe everything the media says that he says. They tend to put a lot of words in his mouth.
 
This is very wise advice and sounds closest to what I feel is probably the most virtuous approach. It is definitely difficult to stay silent when faced with the injustice of souls being led astray, though. And as you say there is no one size fits all approach.
Obviously I know fine well that my little comments on a forum have little effect anyway but one just feels compelled…
I think I’m going to (pessimistically and with no hope of answer but simply to clear my conscience) try to contact the person in question with my concerns. If I receive no answer I will simply say no more but share my thoughts if asked by sincere Catholics who are confused.
 
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You are right in thinking that we should be mindful of what we think, say and do. Surely we need to be pure of heart and beg God daily to remove the “wooden beam from our own eye.”

However, it would be to our ruin if we did not attempt to pray and address the clear “outward” sins of our beloved Priests and Bishops. Can we attempt to let them slip and fall and not catch them? Are they immune to the wiles of the demon; if they have reached perfection already, then they would not be sinning, let alone sinning publicly and leading other faithful into perdition.

I understand the tricks of some to make us believe we are at fault for even thinking that another is sinning as we, in this day and age, have come to consider any notice of something “off” as harsh and rash judgement… judgement the Lord condemns. This, I assure you, is a nasty trick of the demon to silence us. He likes to play with our feelings and thoughts… did he not use Sacred Scripture to tempt Jesus?

Continued:
 
I deleted this same post shown here below because I’m still new to this website and not sure how to “tag” the OP in a post. At any rate, here is what I posted:

Continued:

The Spokesman of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, His High-Eminence, Orthodox Metropolitan of Boryspil Anthony has condemned the “Black Lives Matter” movement.

(Only a portion of this letter/speech is attached here given the space given me… it can be found through a small google search)

"Activists are already demanding to remove the image of Archangel Michael trampling Satan, because Satan is traditionally depicted in black, which, in their opinion, is a manifestation of racism. And the so-called fighters for justice have already raised a hand at the image of the Lord Jesus Christ, who, in their opinion, personifies racism with one fact of his being white. The religious leaders of the Western world did not defend their own shrines, but they try to make awkward curtsies to activists, saying that Christ was not completely white in his earthy life. If we look back over the past decades, we will see that such curtsies from religious leaders to various minorities who consider themselves disadvantaged are committed regularly. And few people know that such concessions to the so-called “representatives of non-traditional orientation” - and you will not be able to call sin a sin. For a modern society mired in unhealthy tolerance, priorities are shifted. For them, true tolerance, justice, and equality, which are possible only in Christ, are not important. They only need new rights and privileges. In Christianity it has been long been common to hate sin but love and pity the sinner, but now, under the guise of leniency to the sinner, they are trying to instill leniency to sin.

We shouldn’t dismiss that - they say this is happening in the USA and Western Europe, but this is impossible in our country. Alas, all this is already starting to happen here. And now you should be courageous enough to call a spade and spade, without regard to the society poisoned by the press. Otherwise, it will be too late.”

His High-Eminence, Orthodox Metropolitan Anthony of Boryspil, Spokeman for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
 
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We are perfectly entitled to judge an opinion or an action. We cannot judge a person.

Also, given the erroneous but constant appeals to popular opinion (think of all those surveys of how many Catholics favour women priests) it is more important than in the past that orthodox Catholics remind priests that there are plenty of people who believe in the traditional and constant teaching of the Church.
 
Keep in mind that “media priests” who make questionable remarks also have a history of good remarks.

I think it’s best to keep your critique to the particular statement, and not attack the priest as a person.

We also don’t know if the bishop has said anything to him in private.

Back in the mid 1900s there was a famous priest writer named Thomas Merton who started writing a series of very solid Catholic books, then he went off the rails mixing Buddhism into his writings.

The point is that it’s fine to call out a priest who is leading people astray, but not to make a blanket statement over his character.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
Back in the mid 1900s there was a famous priest writer named Thomas Merton who started writing a series of very solid Catholic books, then he went off the rails mixing Buddhism into his writings.
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I would note that this is your opinion that he “went off the rails”. It’s clear from past discussions of him on here that many Catholics don’t share your view and Pope Francis has also spoken very highly of him in public.

This points up a big problem with criticizing priests: unless the priest’s superior or the Vatican has issued some public correction or admonishment, most of what people post about this priest or that priest is largely their own personal opinion. I could give my mixed opinions on about a half-dozen celebrity priests, several of whom I’ve met personally. But it’s my opinion only. None of the priests are speaking against Church teaching, and I have no doubt that if they did, their bishops or superiors would step in. They do take certain opinions and attitudes that I might applaud in some cases and find bothersome in other cases, but they’re allowed to do that.
 
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sealabeag said:
Really, I’d have thought this was just a fact? Albeit the phrasing might not be to everyone’s taste.
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We’ve had contentious threads on Merton before. I don’t think you can call it “just a fact”.

The Pope does not generally go out of his way to publicly praise priests who “go off the rails”.
 
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Yeah I won’t get into it as that wasn’t the purpose of this thread, agree to disagree.
 
Back on the topic of the thread, the fact that we are “agreeing to disagree” on this issue shows that people can have a wide variety of opinions on a well-known priest and that what one person sees as a factual statement, someone else might see as a biased opinion or even a flaggable “inciting animosity towards the clergy” post.

I also think the idea of celebrity priests leading huge numbers of people astray is a bit far-fetched. People don’t generally form themselves upon what a priest says. Rather, people gravitate towards celebrity priests who express the views and attitudes they themselves already have. Priests with a lot of followers generally are representing a wide stream of thought already in Catholic culture, not creating such a stream themselves.
 
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