R
reen12
Guest
Dear otm,
quote: otm
reen12
quote: otm
Thank you for your charity.
reen12
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R
reen12
Guest
See, Alan, are you surprised?
My “Good Samartians” are the Jews.
See ya.
reen12
My “Good Samartians” are the Jews.
See ya.
reen12
R
RSiscoe
Guest
reen12,
I would really love to talk to you, listen to you, etc…
R
reen12
Guest
It’s OK, RSiscoe,
I was looking at part of the exchange between you and
itsjust dave, on another thread. Most interesting.
It’s so easy to reduce me to tears, that I really should
not be posting.
Talk about feeling rejected. I should just ring a bell,
like the lepers of yore, to let people know that I’m
in the vicinity.
I was so closed up inside for decades, that I thought
that I could share the pain and be accepted.
I value your post very much, RSiscoe. You
exemplfy the words in blue, below.
God bless you,
reen12
I was looking at part of the exchange between you and
itsjust dave, on another thread. Most interesting.
It’s so easy to reduce me to tears, that I really should
not be posting.
Talk about feeling rejected. I should just ring a bell,
like the lepers of yore, to let people know that I’m
in the vicinity.
I was so closed up inside for decades, that I thought
that I could share the pain and be accepted.
I value your post very much, RSiscoe. You
exemplfy the words in blue, below.
God bless you,
reen12
A
AlanFromWichita
Guest
Dear Maureen,
Your posts were fabulous. You have said so much in two posts that I don’t know where to start to respond. So much of what you said parallels my own experience, although I was more accused of having an affective disorder rather than a dissociative one. My perpetually-hospitalized sister-in-law supposedly is schizo-, but she’s been given many labels.
I have learned so much about psychology, philosophy, religion, and the spiritual journey in the last 4-5 years, that I have what I believe to be some rather surprising conclusions and ideas from it all. Yours not only fit what I believed, but added to it.
Now I am convinced more than ever that Dr. Glassner (spelling?) was right. My spiritual director at the time turned me onto him. Glassner talked about mental retardation, alzheimers, head trauma, and the like as “authentic” (my word not his) mental illness. Things like what we have, I might paraphrase to call a “software” problem instead of a hardware problem.
The implications are that the origins and solutions to both our problems are spiritual. They come about as a person, often very devout and very intelligent, tries to navigate safely through the troubled waters of a society founded on original sin.
“Chemical imbalance,” fooey. That’s something the drug companies want you to believe. Their products can certainly help one get through a troubled time but they don’t remove or heal the problem the way the Spirit can. I don’t doubt that my brain chemicals were out of balance, but only as a result and not as a cause of my emotional problems.
The biggest problem I see with the Spirit correcting, is there is precious little intelligence guidance through these waters. Where are we to go for guidance? To the same Church whose internal strife and confusion and well-meaning but sinful leaders drove us to this situation to begin with?
When I say the Church has what it takes to heal a person, I fully believe that. It also has what it takes to drive a person crazy in the first place; that would be for example hypocracy and “relativism” presented as if it were “absolutism.” My own psychiatric troubles were very closely connected to the Church, as I was parish council VP, Home and School chair, and had other positions of authority. The day I got locked up this one really mean priest (he writes beautifully but I’ve met like one person ever who actually enjoys talking to him) screamed at me and told me to get out of the cathedral. I spat upon the cathedral and left, convinced that I had been excommunicated, and that the leaders of the Church were driving the Church and its followers to hell and I couldn’t do anything to stop it.
So what is one to do? Yes, I got help from the Church, much needed help, by meeting with a fabulous spiritual director. He got me started on the path to healing, but I have gone outside the Church for philisophical arguments to help me, and for ideas on how our beliefs relate to non-Christian beliefs, and how any of this can be of value.
Trust me, there are many thought products that can heal the distress in one’s mind that aren’t Catholic in name. Much of what mainstream Catholicism delivers become problems rather than solutions.
I too had to evaluate whether I wanted to stay in the Church, or quietly slink away from our parish to get away from all the controversy. At medical advice, I quit all my positions of authority in the Church because I could not stop myself from trying to use Christ as a point of discussion in making operating decisions, or trying to convince my brothers to actually follow our documented procedures or to admit we aren’t and change them.
Anyway I’m fascinated that you would choose Jewish religion. Personally I’ve come to believe that Jesus Christ, even if viewed as not historical but imaginary, is a fabulous character with wonderful things to say. One would not know it by the hardened shell that surrounds His goodness in the Church, and by the ugly face that supposedly well-meaning Christians paint on Him.
It took my philosophical lectures by a former priest, who became a Buddhist for a while, then quit religion altogether, to help me see that Christ is not the characature of Christ that most in the Church seem to follow. This man (Alan Watts) helped to heal me and actually helped me become OK with staying in the Church.
As I continue to hijack the thread, I do so with no regrets. If it bugs anyone please let me know and I’ll try to help you get over it.
Alan
A
AlanFromWichita
Guest
In case anybody knows what parish I go to, please do not let my remarks above be construed as having anything to do with the parish leadership currently in place. The person who seemed to embody the problem was actually asked to leave our parish, and so we are in healing.
The evil spirit that captured the place first spoke to me through a man allegedly named “Randy,” although he never introduced himself – either the spirit or “Randy.”
Randy was the organizational and emotional leader of the finance committee, and I was an active member in the stewardship committee. I always heard horror stories about Randy, and assumed he clearly had an abortive mentality. The pastor at the time was trying to correct the problem, but was overwhelmed by administrative tasks and had delegated some of his authority to lay people so that he wouldn’t have to compromise his prayer life. He said the one thing he wouldn’t do is be a priest without a good prayer life.
Anyway, the day Randy and the carcass named Alan met was on school registration day. Back in those days I had a great job and could tithe well. When we got to the registration desk, the guys who were my friends on the stewardship committee laughed and joked as they looked up my name, in high ceremonious fashion. (They were also on the tithing committee, so they knew me well and they knew Randy well.) Horror of horrors, their records were missing information and showed me $300 behind. They saw this and their faces fell. They said, you’ll have to talk to Randy.
We were ushered to the end of the table for people who need a whooping in front of other parents. The evil spirit, controlling Randy, came up to the other side of the table and looked at a slip of paper the other guys handed him and then back away with somber expressions.
Randy stood completely expressionless as he looked at the numbers, then gently looked toward me. Suddenly his faced tensed up and he introduced himself by putting the paper on the table, poking it aggressively with a pound of his index finger, and said to me – this fellow leader of the parish for years who is meeting me in person for the first time – “Let me explain something to you. You can either lay down $300 right now or your kids are outta here!” Then he glared at me with a mean, condescending look. I was convinced I was looking at the spiritual equivalent of an abortionist right in the eye.
From that day, I got worse until I got involuntarily locked up in a wacky ward. I tried to tackle the spirit in a number of ways, and twice I asked Father if I should back off and he said, “no Alan I know you’re not a vindictive person – you do what you think needs to be done.” It was the darndest thing I ever saw.
When I was in the lockup, one person from the parish wrote me a nice “get well” letter, the president of the parish council (I was vice pres under him). He actually listened to me until he could understand what I was telling him, and then he became my advocate. Unfortunately, he moved out of the parish right after that because he had moved pretty far away and decided to quit commuting. It was nice to have one person who had influence, her me out.
Anyway as I said, Randy’s gone, the parish is healing, and the other people who gave me trouble have done me and my family so many carnal works of mercy by now I am humbled, thankful, and happy to be a member of the community of sinners which is our parish.
I broke the silence on one guy who was very influential when I chance met his wife at the adoration chapel, and told her, “you know, when your husband <gave our family food when we were in need – plentiful and excellent>, I had to ask myself, is he really a demon, or is he Mother Teresa?”
From that day on the healing began with me and the parish.
Happy ending. Still in the Church. Have problems now and then with my own pride among other things, but I guess I’m hopelessly attracted to the Church no matter what happens. Plus, I get paid to go to Mass at two parish every week anyway so I even have a worldly excuse to keep going even when I’m angry with her, and get to hear two sermons every week.
OK, now I’ll apologize and offer to bow out in case anyone wants to reclaim the thread. I’ll go to another thread with any more of this. I hope this information is helpful to others in some way; if not then pray for me because you guys are cool like that.
Alan
The evil spirit that captured the place first spoke to me through a man allegedly named “Randy,” although he never introduced himself – either the spirit or “Randy.”
Randy was the organizational and emotional leader of the finance committee, and I was an active member in the stewardship committee. I always heard horror stories about Randy, and assumed he clearly had an abortive mentality. The pastor at the time was trying to correct the problem, but was overwhelmed by administrative tasks and had delegated some of his authority to lay people so that he wouldn’t have to compromise his prayer life. He said the one thing he wouldn’t do is be a priest without a good prayer life.
Anyway, the day Randy and the carcass named Alan met was on school registration day. Back in those days I had a great job and could tithe well. When we got to the registration desk, the guys who were my friends on the stewardship committee laughed and joked as they looked up my name, in high ceremonious fashion. (They were also on the tithing committee, so they knew me well and they knew Randy well.) Horror of horrors, their records were missing information and showed me $300 behind. They saw this and their faces fell. They said, you’ll have to talk to Randy.
We were ushered to the end of the table for people who need a whooping in front of other parents. The evil spirit, controlling Randy, came up to the other side of the table and looked at a slip of paper the other guys handed him and then back away with somber expressions.
Randy stood completely expressionless as he looked at the numbers, then gently looked toward me. Suddenly his faced tensed up and he introduced himself by putting the paper on the table, poking it aggressively with a pound of his index finger, and said to me – this fellow leader of the parish for years who is meeting me in person for the first time – “Let me explain something to you. You can either lay down $300 right now or your kids are outta here!” Then he glared at me with a mean, condescending look. I was convinced I was looking at the spiritual equivalent of an abortionist right in the eye.
From that day, I got worse until I got involuntarily locked up in a wacky ward. I tried to tackle the spirit in a number of ways, and twice I asked Father if I should back off and he said, “no Alan I know you’re not a vindictive person – you do what you think needs to be done.” It was the darndest thing I ever saw.
When I was in the lockup, one person from the parish wrote me a nice “get well” letter, the president of the parish council (I was vice pres under him). He actually listened to me until he could understand what I was telling him, and then he became my advocate. Unfortunately, he moved out of the parish right after that because he had moved pretty far away and decided to quit commuting. It was nice to have one person who had influence, her me out.
Anyway as I said, Randy’s gone, the parish is healing, and the other people who gave me trouble have done me and my family so many carnal works of mercy by now I am humbled, thankful, and happy to be a member of the community of sinners which is our parish.
I broke the silence on one guy who was very influential when I chance met his wife at the adoration chapel, and told her, “you know, when your husband <gave our family food when we were in need – plentiful and excellent>, I had to ask myself, is he really a demon, or is he Mother Teresa?”
From that day on the healing began with me and the parish.
Happy ending. Still in the Church. Have problems now and then with my own pride among other things, but I guess I’m hopelessly attracted to the Church no matter what happens. Plus, I get paid to go to Mass at two parish every week anyway so I even have a worldly excuse to keep going even when I’m angry with her, and get to hear two sermons every week.
OK, now I’ll apologize and offer to bow out in case anyone wants to reclaim the thread. I’ll go to another thread with any more of this. I hope this information is helpful to others in some way; if not then pray for me because you guys are cool like that.
Alan
R
reen12
Guest
Hi, Alan,
Ready? Went to doctor today and…it’s bipolar. I could see it
in yesterday’s “how to handle verbs” posts.
It’s taken 10 years to spot it, because the orginal episode was severe depression [hospitalization], but as I look back, it was preceeded by a manic episode, but I never mentioned it, and wasn’t on meds
at the time.
[Was unable to sleep at all, last night, had all this energy and
restlessness…]
I’m starting the new medication today.
Haven’t read your posts above, but will do so now.
I see now, that, other than 10 years ago, it usually takes the
form of hypomania.
I’d use the word “solidarity” but it’s so stereotypical that
I’ll pass on it.
Anyway, thanks for being there for
the last couple of days.
Maureen
PS: I just read your two posts. I’ll look for a thread
started by you. If not, I’ll start my own, so the thread
can continue in it’s original topic…sorry, guys.
Ready? Went to doctor today and…it’s bipolar. I could see it
in yesterday’s “how to handle verbs” posts.
It’s taken 10 years to spot it, because the orginal episode was severe depression [hospitalization], but as I look back, it was preceeded by a manic episode, but I never mentioned it, and wasn’t on meds
at the time.
[Was unable to sleep at all, last night, had all this energy and
restlessness…]
I’m starting the new medication today.
Haven’t read your posts above, but will do so now.
I see now, that, other than 10 years ago, it usually takes the
form of hypomania.
I’d use the word “solidarity” but it’s so stereotypical that
I’ll pass on it.
Anyway, thanks for being there forthe last couple of days.
Maureen
PS: I just read your two posts. I’ll look for a thread
started by you. If not, I’ll start my own, so the thread
can continue in it’s original topic…sorry, guys.
A
AlanFromWichita
Guest
I guess we’ve probably been exorcising the patience of others long enough.
Here is the new thread, named “Bipolar Club”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=60401
Non-bipolars are welcome in the club, too. My personal opinion is that the physics of the universe are bipolar in nature, and bipolar symptoms may be a characteristic result of certain coping strategies people use to deal with it.
Congrats on being called bipolar. I was called “severe bipolar” and qualified for federal disability, but never finished the paperwork because I was too messed up. The Good News is that I finally have this bipolar thing whooped so it really has no dominion over us any more through Christ.
Note that bipolar disorder is defined and diagnosed statistically based on behavioral symptoms, discovered through observation and interview and other techniques. That means that label in itself is very relative in terms of anything lasting within you. This is Happy News because that means the whole thing is not only a software error, but the interface to the outside world can be the cause of the symptoms rather than an internal problem in the way one thinks – at least that’s what I found.
That’s why bipolar is an “affective” disorder; it affects my affectations, or my outwardly observable mood. It doesn’t mean your mind is messed up in my ability to think correctly about things, just that when you express yourself you send emotional messages along with your literal messages that cause people to respond in ways you didn’t expect.
That’s why when a bipolar tries to talk religion, other people get scared because we believe what we are saying so strongly, and we wish so much to be understood, that there is “pressured speech” (one of the symptoms of mania) which seems to create an impenetrable barrier in the minds of most other people, causing them to think you need to “chill out” and further irritating you instead of just listening to what the person is trying to say.
FWIW, that’s my Grand Unified Theory on bipolar, at least for the moment.
Caution: opinions subject to change when the wind changes directions!
Now the crazies can retreat with our blather away from this thread. God willing, I personally will make at least one attempt at reviving it in case I helped kill it. Thank you all for your patience.
Alan
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