Dad's Death and Jehova's Witness Beliefs on Death

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My Aunt who is Jehova’s Witness has caught my mom and I in a spiritual bind wondering about the soul of my departed father who just recently (a week ago) died. We are Catholic, and I am sorry if I sound like a dumb Catholic ( because I am in grief and having other problems, believe it or not—so my head is swimming).

It doesn’t take much to start something with a Jehova’s Witness, I know from throughout the years and my mom’s and dad’s experience with my relatives who are JW’s. I just in passing remarked that “now my dad is happy to be barking drills to the angels like the bulldog Marine Corps seargent he was on earth”----well where DO YOU think he is (an incredulous look from my Aunt) She knew the Catholic answer—and I gave it. I thought they believed in heaven (stupid me, I guess)
My Aunt tells us that nowhere in the bible does it say that we have a soul, and that nowhere in the bible does it say that there is a heaven or hell. According to her beliefs, my father’s soul is dead also along with his body, and that he has to wait for the ressurection. Can you tell me how to counter this----what to say in response to this? She uses Genesis and God’s words to Adam when he sinned and ate of the fruit: “…from dust you came, and to dust you shall return” as explanation for that DEATH is our payment for sin----praying for my dad is useless because he doesn’t exist anymore----and that his sins are paid for anyway.

She says that it doesn’t say *anything about going to heaven or hell or purgatory in the bible.
How come we believe that we will go to either heaven, hell, or purgatory?

I love her dearly, but I feel like she has dealt me and mom a low blow at a time we feel very vulnerable. It makes me angry that she comes in with her agenda (to prosletyze us away from the “demon religion”=Catholicism) at OUR time of suffering—instead of respecting OUR beliefs and how we feel about my dad’s death.
We saw my dad suffer not for several years, but close to twenty years with different cancers he got from taking part in the atomic bomb exercises (1950)when he was 17 yrs old. He was wounded twice—the second time he wanted to go back to fight and help his friends as he felt selfish leaving them behind to go home. So he recuperated in Japan and went back.
The last three years of his life declined rapidly because his body could not take any more radiation treatments----he had to let his body succumb to the last cancer. He had just HAD ENOUGH. It is definitely not a consoling thought to think his soul is dead.

He was 79 yrs old when he died on St.Teresa’s day, “…How sweet it is to die when one has lived on the cross with Christ”.(Teresa de Avila)

Thank you and sorry if the tribute made anyone yawn—I miss my father and hope to see him someday again.

Also thanks in advance for the smart people on this forum who give me answers to my queries.
 
sea_star said:
My Aunt who is Jehova’s Witness has caught my mom and I in a spiritual bind wondering about the soul of my departed father who just recently (a week ago) died. We are Catholic, and I am sorry if I sound like a dumb Catholic ( because I am in grief and having other problems, believe it or not—so my head is swimming).

It doesn’t take much to start something with a Jehova’s Witness, I know from throughout the years and my mom’s and dad’s experience with my relatives who are JW’s. I just in passing remarked that “now my dad is happy to be barking drills to the angels like the bulldog Marine Corps seargent he was on earth”----well where DO YOU think he is (an incredulous look from my Aunt) She knew the Catholic answer—and I gave it. I thought they believed in heaven (stupid me, I guess)
My Aunt tells us that nowhere in the bible does it say that we have a soul, and that nowhere in the bible does it say that there is a heaven or hell. According to her beliefs, my father’s soul is dead also along with his body, and that he has to wait for the ressurection. Can you tell me how to counter this----what to say in response to this? She uses Genesis and God’s words to Adam when he sinned and ate of the fruit: “…from dust you came, and to dust you shall return” as explanation for that DEATH is our payment for sin----praying for my dad is useless because he doesn’t exist anymore----and that his sins are paid for anyway.

She says that it doesn’t say *anything about going to heaven or hell or purgatory in the bible.
How come we believe that we will go to either heaven, hell, or purgatory?

I love her dearly, but I feel like she has dealt me and mom a low blow at a time we feel very vulnerable. It makes me angry that she comes in with her agenda (to prosletyze us away from the “demon religion”=Catholicism) at OUR time of suffering—instead of respecting OUR beliefs and how we feel about my dad’s death.
We saw my dad suffer not for several years, but close to twenty years with different cancers he got from taking part in the atomic bomb exercises (1950)when he was 17 yrs old. He was wounded twice—the second time he wanted to go back to fight and help his friends as he felt selfish leaving them behind to go home. So he recuperated in Japan and went back.
The last three years of his life declined rapidly because his body could not take any more radiation treatments----he had to let his body succumb to the last cancer. He had just HAD ENOUGH. It is definitely not a consoling thought to think his soul is dead.

He was 79 yrs old when he died on St.Teresa’s day, “…How sweet it is to die when one has lived on the cross with Christ”.(Teresa de Avila)

Thank you and sorry if the tribute made anyone yawn—I miss my father and hope to see him someday again.

Also thanks in advance for the smart people on this forum who give me answers to my queries.
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St. Paul prays for the dead in 2 Tim1:16-18
Romans says Death does not separate us from Christ (8:35-39)
Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4 speaks of Souls awaiting to be reunited with their bodies.
Luke 16:19-30 shows that after death the soul is aware, and concerned about us here on earth.
 
Pay no attention to JW’s aside from being annoying, the fact that they are arguing with you in a time of grief about where your dads Spirit is says a lot about them.
 
Sea star,
I am very sorry to hear of your father’s passing. Here is another passage for you to read, it probably won’t change your aunt’s mind because to them it is apocrypha, but you know the truth! But it is a beautiful passage none the less.

Wis 3: 1-3; But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them. In the eyes of the foolish they seem to have died, and their departure was thought to be an affliction, and their going from us to be their destruction; but they are at peace.
 
Thanks to all who have answered. I do want to say something out there for the math experts (ha, ha) I said my dad was 17 in 1950, but he was 17 when he entered the service and went to war—in 1950, he was obviously 21 yrs old—but I correct myself so—there:)

Thanks Cal Catholic: I loved that passage from Wisdom. It was read at his funeral Mass, and I am going to underline it in my bible.
In the eyes of the foolish they seem to have died, and their departure was thought to be an affliction, and their going from us to be their destruction; but they are at peace

Yep Ruben Z.—I agree. What annoys me the most is that her daughter( my first cousin) died three years ago, and all we Catholic members of her family only showed her comfort and kind words sans the religion talk. We will always differ, and we will always be wrong in her eyes, so why argue? Why voice my concern that my cousin was never baptised?? All I can do in the silence of my heart, is pray for her.

Br. Rich:

Thank you----I was reading the parable to my mom—and I kept thinking aloud that why would Jesus say such a parable unless it was true that we did go to God immediately after death?? Jesus is no liar or embellisher of the truth.

Thank You,Thank You,Thank You—and God bless all of you.
 
Sea Star-

First, my condolences to you on your great loss. Rest assured, Friend - you WILL see your father again!

St. Paul said in II Corinthians 5:6-8 (NAB), “So we are always courageous, although we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yet we are courageous, and we would rather leave the body and go home to the Lord.”

Even more significant was our Lord’s conversation with the thief on the cross next to Him (Luke 23:42-43):
“Then he [the thief] said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. He replied to him, 'Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Obviously, the thief’s body would not be resurrected yet, but his soul was what our Lord was addressing.

It is in the Apostles’ Creed:
"I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.

With whom do we commune in the “communion of the saints” if your aunt’s assertions are correct?

As for her assertions that the Bible says nothing about heaven or hell…aside from the two already mentioned, here are a few (there are more):

From Philippians 3:17-20:
“Join with others in being imitators of me, brothers, and observe those thus conduct themselves according to the model you have in us. For many, as I have often told you and now tell you even in tears, conduct themselves as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction. Their God is their stomach; their glory is their ‘shame.’ Their minds are occupied with earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we also await a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.”
-What destruction? What citizenship? If heaven and hell do not exist, then what is St. Paul talking about?

I suggest you read I Corinthians 15 - the whole chapter. St. Paul is dealing with a similar heresy - there is no resurrection of the dead - and he soundly trounces it. In it, there is much evidence of “the life to come.”

Jesus frequently mentions the “kingdom of heaven.” There are so many, I couldn’t type them all out here. But you might try a Bible concordance. Look up “heaven.” There are hundreds of verses pertaining to heaven. Also look up “hell.” It is there. I guarantee it. 😃

I’m going to say this with all charity - your aunt’s belief is wrong. You will see your father again…this time, in a body without pain. Praise be to our Lord! :signofcross:

One final note: I would not try to argue with your aunt about this. This is a difficult time for you. JWs are known for having an “answer” for anything you throw at them; it is not the Truth, but simply their “answer.” Read the Scriptures, meditate on the promises there, and remember that the Church and our Lord would not deceive us.

My prayers are with you and your family at this difficult time. May our Lord grant you peace.
 
RHC said:
Sea Star-

First, my condolences to you on your great loss. Rest assured, Friend - you WILL see your father again!
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Thank you dearly----your words go straight to my heart.
RHC said:
Read the Scriptures, meditate on the promises there, and remember that the Church and our Lord would not deceive us.

My prayers are with you and your family at this difficult time. May our Lord grant you peace.
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I have written down every passage you qouted and will take your advice on looking up heaven in the concordance—better yet, I will read my bible daily so I won’t be caught off gaurd. But I am doing this for my spiritual enrichment only, and not to verbally counter my aunt----I want to at least counter what she says in my heart—to know the truth more soundly. If anything, the experience I have had with her, has made me aware that I need to read and meditate (as you suggest) on the bible-----I even told her that.

It doesn’t even matter if she thinks I am an idiot for being so soft in the head about scripture—I DO know what is in the bible—I just can’t run to a passage to back up my faith like they do—in other words I am not even a ***mediocre ***apologist (sic??) But I know the greatest commandment is to love God with all our hearts, all our minds, and all our souls, and love our neighbor----which I try to live by in showing respect and understanding even in tough times

Thanks alot again:)
 
Sometimes the greatest apologetics is what we do, not what we say. 🙂 As St. Francis of Assisi said, “Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
 
I’d also like to add my condolences to you on your loss. May the precious and funny memories you have of him be a comfort to you. ❤️

The above replies are really good. But what gets me is the absolute lack of tact or consideration from your aunt. What a disgusting thing to say to someone who’s just suffered a loss! I don’t care what one’s religious beliefs are–they’re no excuse for using someone’s unfortunate loss as a springboard to bombard you with their drivel. What nerve.

I think the next time you see your aunt, if it comes up you could tell her how insensitive she was to bomb you with her “beliefs” KNOWING you just suffered a loss and KNOWING you’re Catholic. Then tell her the subject is closed and she should go pray about how hurtful her lack of sensitivity and tact were to you.

What a shame that JWs see others’ losses as a means and reason to evangelize. :mad:
 
RHC: I have to respond to your signature tag, which I find very respectful. I heard a song my kids were listening to the other day
"…those who died are justified, by wearing the badge they’re your chosen whites( I think “sacrafice” when I hear “whites”) but it is a statement on war and then it goes on to say “some of those who were our forces, are the same who bore our crosses…” I know my dad had more years left in him if it had not been for the Atomic Bomb exercises.
 
twosweetgirls said:
I’d also like to add my condolences to you on your loss. May the precious and funny memories you have of him be a comfort to you. ❤️

The above replies are really good. But what gets me is the absolute lack of tact or consideration from your aunt. What a disgusting thing to say to someone who’s just suffered a loss! I don’t care what one’s religious beliefs are–they’re no excuse for using someone’s unfortunate loss as a springboard to bombard you with their drivel. What nerve.

I think the next time you see your aunt, if it comes up you could tell her how insensitive she was to bomb you with her “beliefs” KNOWING you just suffered a loss and KNOWING you’re Catholic. Then tell her the subject is closed and she should go pray about how hurtful her lack of sensitivity and tact were to you.

What a shame that JWs see others’ losses as a means and reason to evangelize. :mad:
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Thank you for your condolences, TwoSweet. God Bless you. It was very insensitive of her, but it just makes me see how some JW’s prosletyze—they wait for a vulnerable moment. But she didn’t sell me with telling me my dad’s soul doesn’t exist anymore. She couldn’t sell me with anything really because I am “hopelessly” Catholic, but she thinks she can because I love her so much. I show them respect and don’t like to argue—so I kindly listen—they are very militant and they interpret my kindness as “doorway” to converting me. They couldn’t though. The Eucharist is my stronghold as a Catholic. There are many times I have thought to lose hope and leave, but the Eucharist keeps me a practicing Catholic, Amen. As it will always, God bless God!
 
My deepest sympathy to you and your mom. You can always fall back on our Catholic catechism which teaches us that we who have been baptized have been buried with Christ and have risen to new life.

That’s the best part…Christ died for us and opened the gates of heaven. We who have died in Christ like your father will be able through His wonderful grace, mercy and unconditional love for us will one day enjoy the fruits of His kingdom.

Heaven exists. God told us many times of his Kingdom. Believe!
And pray for your dad and to your dad. He still lives…and through God’s mercy you will be reunited one day as well.

You don’t have to take my word for it, take Jesus’.
 
stbruno said:
My deepest sympathy to you and your mom. You can always fall back on our Catholic catechism which teaches us that we who have been baptized have been buried with Christ and have risen to new life.

That’s the best part…Christ died for us and opened the gates of heaven. We who have died in Christ like your father will be able through His wonderful grace, mercy and unconditional love for us will one day enjoy the fruits of His kingdom.

Heaven exists. God told us many times of his Kingdom. Believe!
And pray for your dad and to your dad. He still lives…and through God’s mercy you will be reunited one day as well.

You don’t have to take my word for it, take Jesus’.
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Thanks StBruno----I NEED you all—though I have heard of these things you all reassure me about, I STILL NEED for you all to remind me—I crumble sometimes, and of course now that my dad has died, it has tested my faith:blush: . I am ashamed of my neglect in reading scripture daily, but my dad’s passing brought this blessing to my life. I must LISTEN to the word of God, READ it daily as I am setting my heart to do daily for at least 30 minutes so that my heart can be firm in the words of Christ, and BELIEVE with joy in His promises. And a weird thing is, now that my dad has passed on to his new life in Christ, I am so much more aware of God’s mercy, as I pray the Mercy Chaplet daily. I actually look forward to being with my dad someday (not any time soon though—I have kids!!)
 
Lazarus and the Rich Man.
Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and feasted sumptuously every day.
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. And no one did give him: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: **and he was buried in hell. **
Luk 16:23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom:
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you cannot, nor from thence come hither.
Luk 16:27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren,
Luk 16:28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.
Luk 16:29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
Luk 16:31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.
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Jesus said that there is a hell and that it is a place of torment.

The JW’s may have changed this in their bible.

From the NWB
“Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in Ha´des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz´a·rus in the bosom [position] with him. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz´a·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Laz´a·rus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and YOU people, so that those wanting to go over from here to YOU people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.’ 27
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If you ask your Aunt what Hades is she will tell you it isn’t hell.
 
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