Dark Night of the Soul

[Andruschak]

Somebody here accurately predicted that my know-it-all attitude to RCIA was bound to run into trouble. Yup. Last week’s daily RCIA classes at catechismclass.com had us wading through Dark Night of the Soul by Saint John Of The Cross. Also Our Father’s Plan by Fr. William Most. Spoken prayer, silent prayer, meditative prayer, contemplative prayer…sigh.

So I checked my bank account, then Googled, and wound up at www.getfed.com where I was able to order the book Dark Night Of The Soul, in a translation by Mirabai Starr. I hope this translation is good enough to explain things to me.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I started this book awhile back, not sure if the same translation, but found it somewhat difficult, maybe I couldn’t quite relate to it at the time. I was on a spiritual high and didn’t want to read such a downer!

I should revisit Dark Night, as I think I’m going through something like it at the moment. Ah, the spiritual life, you never know what’s around the next bend!

It seems like a lot of what I have been reading lately have references to St. John of the Cross or elude to Dark Night. I think someone is trying to tell me something.

Let me know if your particular translation is a good one!

Good Luck!

 

[Aureole]

My library has the translation you’re talking about. I borrowed it a number of months ago and expected a good read by a wonderful saint. I couldn’t get past the preface; it was large, boring, and terribly disconcerting.

The translator is not Catholic, nor even Christian if I recall correctly. That posed a problem since she wouldn’t be versed in Christian theology, which may affect the translation. She also minimized the Christianity in it, as noted in her preface. I can’t recall everything but I didn’t even begin reading it because there were a number of changes.

I’ve seen this translation of the Dark Night of the Soul on various Catholic websites. I don’t know if it’s good or not personally, I do know that various Catholics have decided to recommend it on their websites.

 

[Polish]

I’ve been reading Dark Night of the Soul for the past few months. The translator is E. Allison Peers. I’ve found it to be extremely enlightening. It’s not a book that you can simply sit down and read through. It’s similar to reading scripture in that you have to take it in little by little and let St. John’s words settle in your heart and meditate on them. I would very much recommend it to anyone seeking a deeper understanding on the spiritual life. Presently, I’m reading through it a second time.

If I remember correctly (please let me know if I’m wrong) St. John of the Cross is a Doctor of the Church. When I looked at the Amazon link provided and scanned through the reviews, it occurred to me that there is no way of telling if the reviewers were Catholic or not. Just an observation .

Another book that I found outstanding is Abandonment to Divine Providence by Jean-Pierre De Caussade. (Read this one five times ) In fact Mr. De Caussade refers to the works of St. John of the Cross in a number of passages. That probably what led me to look into Dark Night of the Soul.

 

[Aureole]

When I looked at the Amazon link provided and scanned through the reviews, it occurred to me that there is no way of telling if the reviewers were Catholic or not. Just an observation .

That’s true, I was just saying that a number of Catholic’s on various Catholic websites recommend that translation. One can’t really go by the reviewers on Amazon since one doesn’t know where the opinion is coming from.

Another book that I found outstanding is Abandonment to Divine Providence by Jean-Pierre De Caussade. (Read this one five times ) In fact Mr. De Caussade refers to the works of St. John of the Cross in a number of passages. That probably what led me to look into Dark Night of the Soul.

I’ve heard quite a bit about this particular book but have yet to find it anywhere. I think I may actually have it on my wishlist, so I’ll be reading it eventually.

 

[Evan]

The definitive tranlation of the Collected Works of St John of the Cross was done by Fr. Kieran Kavanaugh. It’s the one all the Carmelites used (He was a reformer of the Carmelites)

Dark Night is not recommended as one of the first of his commentaries/poems to read. Start with his spiritual cantacles.

 

[DBT]

The definitive tranlation of the Collected Works of St John of the Cross was done by Fr. Kieran Kavanaugh. It’s the one all the Carmelites used (He was a reformer of the Carmelites)

I agree this is best translation.

So “The Dark Night of the Soul” is being taught as part of an RCIA class? Wow! The Dark Night is a very advanced spiritual work . . . written for those already brought to the initial stages of infused contemplation (Night of Sense) and those very far along in the contemplative way (Night of Spirit). I think this book would be a bit overwhelming in RCIA.

I’m in formation as a Secular Carmelite - a five year process - and even we don’t use “The Dark Night of the Soul” as part of the official formation program. The principal works of St. John that we use are “The Ascent of Mt. Carmel” and “The Spiritual Canticle.” These works treat the entire spiritual life (not just one part of it like the Dark Night) and place the extreme contemplative trials of the Night in their proper context. And context is what I think is lost on the reader if “The Dark Night of the Soul” is the only work read.

Maybe something like St. Francis De Sales “Introduction to the Devout Life” would be more appropriate for those just starting out in their prayer life. I also agree with the poster who mentioned “Abandonment to Divine Providence.”

Dave.

 

[InLight247]

I agree this is best translation.

So “The Dark Night of the Soul” is being taught as part of an RCIA class? Wow! The Dark Night is a very advanced spiritual work . . . written for those already brought to the initial stages of infused contemplation (Night of Sense) and those very far along in the contemplative way (Night of Spirit). I think this book would be a bit overwhelming in RCIA.
Dave.

Agree!
I cannot imagine “Dark Night of the Soul” in RCIA.
Tha candidates may either be confused or scared away!

 

[Pug]

The Ascent of Mount Carmel is more accessible by far. I got my copy for, oh, $20 and it has most all his works in it, translated by Kavanaugh and Rodriguez.

 

[Andruschak]

I agree this is best translation.

So “The Dark Night of the Soul” is being taught as part of an RCIA class? Wow! The Dark Night is a very advanced spiritual work . . . written for those already brought to the initial stages of infused contemplation (Night of Sense) and those very far along in the contemplative way (Night of Spirit). I think this book would be a bit overwhelming in RCIA.
.

Well, if we had had to read the whole book, yes. But we just had short excerpts, enough, perhaps, to show us that there was much more to spirituality then reciting the rosary. Although the rosary is a good start that can be donw once a day for the rest of your life, contemplative or not

 

[DBT]

Well, if we had had to read the whole book, yes. But we just had short excerpts, enough, perhaps, to show us that there was much more to spirituality then reciting the rosary. Although the rosary is a good start that can be donw once a day for the rest of your life, contemplative or not

I hear you!

St. John’s poetry is wonderful way to demonstrate the unitive love born of a very deep and sincere prayer life . . . something we can all aspire to. However, I would question the the wisdom of spending to much time on his commentary from The Dark Night in the context of RCIA. This is where things can really go astray.

One of the many confusing things about St. John - and in this work in particular - are the distinctions he makes between exterior and interior sufferings. This, in my opinion, is completely lost on so many people - even experienced Carmelites - that I can’t even imagine this discussed in RCIA.

While St. John does speak of exterior trials in this work (i.e. setbacks, illnesses, dryness etc) that sometimes take on a spiritual aspect, this is not really the true meaning of the Dark Night. But because we all experience trials like this from time to time - and because we can all personally relate to this aspect of St. John’s teaching - you’ll sometimes hear people say on these forums “Oh, you’re just going through a Dark Night” when some sort of trial comes a posters way. Maybe so . . . but probably not.

The real meaning of The Dark night is not so much on the exterior sufferings most people think but on interior trials — trials that take on an intense, oppressive, overwhelming nature. And what many readers probably don’t realize is that these Nights (both of the Sense and Spirit) are experienced while one is in contemplative prayer. Unfortunately St. John’s terminology can be so darn confusing that I think many readers don’t grasp this — they simply notice the corresponding exterior trials and think “been there, done that.”

I don’t mean to be harping on this but I think I have somewhat of a unique perspective . . . having come into the Church myself through RCIA nearly 15 years ago . . . and entering formation as a Secular Carmelite a little over 2 years ago. To paraphrase to comments of another poster, I probably would have run for the hills if St. John was introduced to me at that time. I simply wasn’t ready for it and I can think of many, many other works more suitable to introducing RCIA candidates to developing a deep prayer life.

Well I guess it’s time to get off the soap box now and move on to the really important matter: Harry, I wish the very best to you and your RCIA program — and welcome to the Church

Dave

 

[FloridaJoan]

Agree!
I cannot imagine “Dark Night of the Soul” in RCIA.
Tha candidates may either be confused or scared away!

I agree. Am thinking Kempis’s “Imitation of Christ” would be a
more appropriate read for RCIA.

Save the Big Guns for later

Welcome to The Catholic Church Harry.

 

[fide]

I agree. Am thinking Kempis’s “Imitation of Christ” would be a
more appropriate read for RCIA.

Save the Big Guns for later

Welcome to The Catholic Church Harry.

“Imitation of Christ” is not exactly chopped liver either! It is a very strong and challenging meditation.

fide

 

[FloridaJoan]

“Imitation of Christ” is not exactly chopped liver either! It is a very strong and challenging meditation.

fide

Fide,

Yes it is. I agree. But i just think that the language is a little easier to read on an intro level. Personally, I think one can read on different levels at different times. I guess what I’m trying to say is that on an intro level ( RCIA ) I feel "Dark Night " is just heavier reading. Not that Imitation is fluff, because it certainly is NOT. In fact i have been Re-reading "Imitation " for about 5 years . Each time I feel I get more and more out of it. I just think " Imitation " is more reader friendly the first time around .

 

[FCEGM]

Somebody here accurately predicted that my know-it-all attitude to RCIA was bound to run into trouble. Yup. Last week’s daily RCIA classes at catechismclass.com had us wading through Dark Night of the Soul by Saint John Of The Cross. Also Our Father’s Plan by Fr. William Most. Spoken prayer, silent prayer, meditative prayer, contemplative prayer…sigh.

So I checked my bank account, then Googled, and wound up at www.getfed.com where I was able to order the book Dark Night Of The Soul, in a translation by Mirabai Starr. I hope this translation is good enough to explain things to me.

Harry, I have to say that I’m impressed that your RCIA program is bringing out the “big guns” with Dark Night of the Soul.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Another book that I found outstanding is Abandonment to Divine Providence by Jean-Pierre De Caussade. (Read this one five times )

My friend bought me this book, (unfortunately I haven’t had the time to read it yet. )

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Somebody here accurately predicted that my know-it-all attitude to RCIA was bound to run into trouble. Yup. Last week’s daily RCIA classes at catechismclass.com had us wading through Dark Night of the Soul by Saint John Of The Cross. Also Our Father’s Plan by Fr. William Most. Spoken prayer, silent prayer, meditative prayer, contemplative prayer…sigh.

So I checked my bank account, then Googled, and wound up at www.getfed.com where I was able to order the book Dark Night Of The Soul, in a translation by Mirabai Starr. I hope this translation is good enough to explain things to me.

Unfortunately, you ordered a book by a non-Catholic on this subject.

There was a version by E. Allison Peers, which would have been better.

This site has the best translations on the Carmelite Saints.

icspublications.com/bookstore/cross/index.html

 

[fide]

Fide,

Yes it is. I agree. But i just think that the language is a little easier to read on an intro level. Personally, I think one can read on different levels at different times. I guess what I’m trying to say is that on an intro level ( RCIA ) I feel "Dark Night " is just heavier reading. Not that Imitation is fluff, because it certainly is NOT. In fact i have been Re-reading "Imitation " for about 5 years . Each time I feel I get more and more out of it. I just think " Imitation " is more reader friendly the first time around .

I agree, Joan - compared to Dark Night, it is easier reading (if no easier living). But if read thoughtfull, Imitation could stun new believers too.

fide

 

[FloridaJoan]

Come to think of it , either book has plenty of food for thought. As do countless others which I’m sure others could recommend. I was thinking of something a friend said to me awhile back … " you only get out what you put in ". I guess it all depends how deep you want to dig. Anyway, enjoyed the chatting.

 

[Andruschak]

Harry, I have to say that I’m impressed that your RCIA program is bringing out the “big guns” with Dark Night of the Soul.

As some posters have noted, this might be considered “too big” for an RCIA class. But this is not your ho-hum once a week RCIA class. This from the internet, FIVE lessons a week, and this enables us to have more mind-stretching then the average RCIA class. We VOLUNTEERED to do this class 5 days a week, and no church RCIA requires this, as far as I know.

catechismclass.com

In fact, the website noted that this set of lessons is intended for both RCIA and those adults who would like a brush-up or new worlds to explore. I am quite happy that I “accidentaly” came across this web site, and if ANYBODY KNOWS OF OTHERS, I’D APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION.