dating a divorced man

[jorge2]

Is it a sin to date or marry someone who was married civilly, not through the church, but is now divorced?

 

[Timidity]

jorge2:

Is it a sin to date or marry someone who was married civilly, not through the church, but is now divorced?

There is no such thing as divorce, period. So, without an annulment, the man is still to be considered married. So your question is really “is it a sin to date a married man”.

I’ll let you answer that one on your own.

The Church won’t marry someone with a living spouse without first determining that the person’s marriage is invalid.

 

[Joysong]

It is my understanding that when a Catholic obtains a civil marriage outside of the Church, it is not a valid sacramental marriage, and is not recognized by the Church as such. There would not be a need to look into a possible annulment, for it was not valid in the beginning.

You don’t say whether or not this person is a Catholic. If so, you would be free to date, since the civil contract has been severed, which is always a requirement prior to annulment proceedings. If he is of another faith, you could have a problem, since the Church does recognize these marriages as valid. He may need to look into an annulment in that case prior to any marriage with you as a Catholic.

And, my friend, if he is another faith … he is still married until the Church says otherwise, even though he has a decree of divorce. You may not date him. There is excellent information on the whole realm of dating in this article:

sspxasia.com/Documents/Catholic_Morality/When_is_company-keeping_lawful_and_prudent.htm

 

[1ke]

jorge2:

Is it a sin to date or marry someone who was married civilly, not through the church, but is now divorced?

If the marriage has not been examined and declared null then this person is still married and therefore not a good candidate for dating. (Even a Catholic married outside the Church must complete paperwork and have their marriage examined).

I would say that whether or not “dating” them is a “sin” depends on a number of factors. First, the purpose of dating is to discern marriage. So, if this person is not at least in the process of a Tribunal examination of their marriage then they are not dating with the end of marriage in mind (or at least not a Catholic marriage). This is certainly problematic

If they are having their marriage examined, then “dating” at a very specific level of getting to know them might be appropriate. Giving your heart and emotional investment to a person who may not be free to marry is unwise. If a person becomes too involved with someone who subsequently is found to have a valid marriage they are often tempted to choose the person rather than the faith. A bad situation to be in.

So, I think this is a very personal situation that requires consultation with a priest.

 

[Timidity]

Joysong:

It is my understanding that when a Catholic obtains a civil marriage outside of the Church, it is not a valid sacramental marriage, and is not recognized by the Church as such. There would not be a need to look into a possible annulment, for it was not valid in the beginning.

This (the last part) is incorrect. The Church needs to examine all previous marriages to determine the facts, even if it is for “lack of canonical form”.

If he is Catholic, then he should be working on his annulment NOW, before he starts dating.

 

[puzzleannie]

the Catholic Church considers all marriages valid until proven otherwise, and does not recognize civil divorce as an action that ends a valid marriage. This man is married, unless and until he submits the facts and circumstances to the tribunal and obtains a decree of nullity. You cannot date a married man. period.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Tiim,

Jyosong: There would not be a need to look into a possible annulment, for it was not valid in the beginning.

Tim: This (the last part) is incorrect. The Church needs to examine all previous marriages to determine the facts, even if it is for “lack of canonical form”.

Yes, I agree that the Church would need to examine and determine this information prior to a new marriage, but since there was not a valid sacramental marriage, there would be no need for an annulment, per se — no?

An annulment declares that the marriage never was, and we already know that because of not being performed by a priest in the beginning. I would not think the person would have to go through a formal annulment proceeding with the Tribunal, when a visit to the priest would soon establish the lack of validity.

Aren’t marriages recorded in the Church in same manner as baptisms and the other sacraments? This would not have been the case as I understand it, and could be quickly proven.

Carole

 

[jorge2]

Thanks to everyone for all the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Aesq]

Joysong:

Dear Tiim,

Yes, I agree that the Church would need to examine and determine this information prior to a new marriage, but since there was not a valid sacramental marriage, there would be no need for an annulment, per se — no?

An annulment declares that the marriage never was, and we already know that because of not being performed by a priest in the beginning. I would not think the person would have to go through a formal annulment proceeding with the Tribunal, when a visit to the priest would soon establish the lack of validity.

Aren’t marriages recorded in the Church in same manner as baptisms and the other sacraments? This would not have been the case as I understand it, and could be quickly proven.

Carole

Yes there is a need for a nullity. All marriages are presumed to be valid. If a Catholic gets married outside the Church without a dispensation then proper form was not followed and a “lack of form” petition can be filed. This is a much simpler process, but still needs to be done. However, a lack of form petition may not apply here as the original poster did not say the person was Catholic at the time of the civil marriage. All marriages are presumed to be valid and must be examined, either for lack of form or a formal petition. There is no exception. One is married until a nullity is granted. All cases must be examined.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Aesq,

Thank you for your reply, which is much appreciated. It is good that we learn so as not to inadvertently misinform anyone else in the future, so this thread has been well worth reading.

What Jorge asked initially was whether or not she could date or marry. According to Section 3D of the link, yes she can date him, provided he is a Catholic who entered a first marriage invalidly … as she indicated in her statement that it was merely a civil contract. I agree there must be some type of petition such as the simpler one you mentioned, rather than a formal annulment proceeding.

d. There are those who have a certain case for a declaration of nullity, and one that can be handled with some dispatch. Thus a Catholic whose first marriage was before a judge instead of a priest

, or who attempted marriage with a validly married but divorced person, can know that, with the proper documents, his case can be settled quite soon. If one priest has not the time to handle it, he should go to another. If he is truly repentant, he, too, will be patient over any delay. His company-keeping is lawful, however, because he is certainly not validly married.

It seems more important for Jorge to learn his background, which she has not disclosed to us, as to whether or not he is a baptized Catholic. If he is not, then she has a more serious issue to consider before she can date him, for he will need an annulment in that case. These are not automaticallly received, as you know. None of us are able to give her precise advice, and it is really best that she discuss all of our information with her priest before acting.

Kind regards,
Carole

 

[Aesq]

Joysong:

Dear Aesq,

Thank you for your reply, which is much appreciated. It is good that we learn so as not to inadvertently misinform anyone else in the future, so this thread has been well worth reading.

What Jorge asked initially was whether or not she could date or marry. According to Section 3D of the link, yes she can date him, provided he is a Catholic who entered a first marriage invalidly … as she indicated in her statement that it was merely a civil contract. I agree there must be some type of petition such as the simpler one you mentioned, rather than a formal annulment proceeding.

It seems more important for Jorge to learn his background, which she has not disclosed to us, as to whether or not he is a baptized Catholic. If he is not, then she has a more serious issue to consider before she can date him, for he will need an annulment in that case. These are not automaticallly received, as you know. None of us are able to give her precise advice, and it is really best that she discuss all of our information with her priest before acting.

Kind regards,
Carole

The link you are quoting is an SSPX link. They do not have any authority on this issue. A nullity will be required for this person in any case. Any prior marriage must be found null before dating. Careful of the links you quote.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Aesq,

I realize it is SSPX, but I felt the article was very well written and theologically sound, so I printed it out and took it to a highly revered, wise, beloved priest in my area to read. He concurred with all of it, that it is in accord with our Church’s teachings. I wanted to be sure, for I had a friend who was in this position, and I hoped to use the article to deter her from dating.

Why do you say a declaration of nullity must be obtained, since the marriage was not performed in front of a priest with proper form?

I can agree that a baptized Catholic who enters a permanent bond of marriage sacramentally would have to obtain an annulment for reasons which the Tribunal may decree caused it to be null through extensive investigation. But when it is not even entered into sacramentally, there need not be a lengthly process involving the required witnesses and lengthly paperwork, other than to certify that the marriage was not sacramentally performed.

Can you provide specific documentation that each marriage of this kind (invalid form) MUST have a filing for annulment? I sincerely doubt it is required, but I would like to learn more about the correct procedure. Perhaps I should speak to the priest for whom I printed out the document in the link. This is getting far too complex to just settle on the internet without more authority than what we see in a thread. There are souls involved here. I believe that in the final analysis, Jorge needs to see her priest before accepting either of our opinions.

I suspect many Catholics raised from cradle upward know that if they enter a marriage through a justice of the peace or noncatholic minister that their marriage from the get-go is going to be invalid and they will live in sin. It should be no surprise, then, to realize that when it ends in divorce, that it never WAS.

Carole

 

[Aesq]

Joysong:

Can you provide specific documentation that each marriage of this kind (invalid form) MUST have a filing for annulment? I sincerely doubt it, but I would like to learn more about the correct procedure.

Sure, just a second. Just so you know. I am having to go through the formal petition process and I was not Catholic at the time of my marriage or divorce and in fact was not even baptized at the time of the marriage.

 

[Joysong]

Then that is the difference, Aesq. Our church does recognize marriages of noncatholics as valid. I agree with our Church now that you have disclosed your situation. However, I’m referring specifically to those who are Catholics. Apples and oranges.

BTW, I obtained an annulment also. It is a very long process involving many years of research, and requiring the testimony, not only of both parties to the marriage, but their parents, friends and family.

This is not really necessary to go through all of this if the Catholic parties can certify rather quickly and easily that they were married at the local Courthouse, for their marriage certificate itself would indicate that a judge performed the ceremony.

Peace,
Carole

 

[Aesq]

Joysong:

This is not really necessary to go through all of this if the Catholic parties can certify rather quickly and easily that they were married at the local Courthouse, for their marriage certificate itself would indicate that a judge performed the ceremony.

It is not necessary to file a formal petition. However, it is necessary to file a lack of form petition. Until it is filed and ruled upon the marriage is presumed to be valid.

 

[Aesq]

Joysong:

Then that is the difference, Aesq. Our church does recognize marriages of noncatholics as valid. I agree with our Church now that you have disclosed your situation. However, I’m referring specifically to those who are Catholics. Apples and oranges.

They are not really apples and oranges. They are judged by the same rules.

Lack of form is the one exception. But still requires a filing.

 

[Joysong]

Ok then, I can rest with filing a “lack of form” petition. I understood you to mean that all marriages had to go through the formal annulment procedure, which made little sense to me.

But for Jorge, I pray she will speak with her priest just to be sure she’s not entering into an occasion of jeopardizing her spiritual life.

May God bless you in your process, Aesq!
Carole

 

[Marian_Carroll]

Thread Closed. Duplicate posting.

See: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=91226