dating a protestant

[1ke]

I’ve read “better to ignore” in threads about reading Anti-Catholic and Atheist literature.

I don’t think that is wise. Ideas have consequences. It is better to know what those ideas are, where they go wrong, and how to intelligently deal with them. Ayn Rand comes to mind. Send a kid off to college knowing nothing about Rand and you’ll likely have a little atheist on your hands by midterm break. From Kant and Nietzsche to Bob Jones and Joel Osteen, these must be dealt with.

I guess its my liberal upbringing that has me see things in such a way. To my eyes the fundamentals seem the same, the rest is just culture and tradition

There are very real differences between the Catholic faith and non-denominational Christian beliefs. The most serious would be the Real Presence of the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist and the entire sacramental system. But, by no means is that the end of it. The points of agreement are few, the points of disagreement are many. And, when I say disagreement, I of course mean mutually exclusive propositions. Either it’s bread or it’s the Body of Christ. Either it’s Scripture alone or it’s not. Either Mary is ever-virgin or she’s not. Either Sacraments confer actual grace, or they don’t.

but then I guess there are some that believe non-catholic Christians will go to hell so obviously its taken very seriously.

On the whole, it’s the other way around.

A Catholic who held this belief would be holding it in contradiction to Church teaching. They would be holding a position condemned by the Church, in fact.

 

[1ke]

I don’t think that is wise. Ideas have consequences. It is better to know what those ideas are, where they go wrong, and how to intelligently deal with them. Ayn Rand comes to mind. Send a kid off to college knowing nothing about Rand and you’ll likely have a little atheist on your hands by midterm break.

Oh, how timely. I rest my case.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=412110

 

[Chris_Marsh]

Natural Family Planning could be interesting if the Catholic date insists on applying it to a prospective spouse (even a non-Catholic one).

That is like a ton of bricks. What, my Catholic date (a woman) has a problem if I were to investigate what few options apply to men? At her age (unspecified of course, I’m a gentleman) she would be fortunate to have only one or two if I were cautious and (hypothetically) did marry her in two years. Thank you God for menopause.

I see a lot of myself in her and let’s be honest here, she talks to me and keeps bringing up places to go on weekends. This is practically front page news as far as I am concerned, I am rather chubby.

I did try to see it from her point of view. Ever since the Old Testament a woman’s child is probably the last person who will ever take care of her. I was the last person to care for Mom before she went to nursing home and subsequently died. I think Dad saw the error of his shortsightedness to hustle my brother and I out of the house on the premise that we were costing money that was intended for her to live on. It was becoming a matter of leaving her to the greedy neighbors instead. Maybe that is what he was trying to tell me incoherently before he died 5.5 years before she died.

But I think my dad was rather disinterested in parenting, and actually let Mom do the parenting. According to legend, she said he said “they’re your kids ma’am.” Look, if I picked THAT up from good ol’ dad, what I really want then is to go child free, how do I make out with that sort of Christian woman? (They exist, but rare. My best friend’s wife, Baptists, the two of them will never have kids.)

How many men have babies because their women want to, but they don’t want to? Naturally the idea is the women are in the relationship to have kids, and the guys love their women (it isn’t all sex) and want to see them happy (hate to see them miserable sans kids). Kids are the price of the relationship (just like the wedding ring).

 

[Chris_Marsh]

My parents were not practicing Christians. They were described as Lutheran. Mom wanted more kids (three) but was confined to bed for both my brother and I. She wasn’t going to put my brother through that as well. They must have asked her if she wanted her tubes tied (traditionally after the second), she said OK.

 

[angelic06]

I understand that the OP has already broken up, but I feel I still have to answer this.

I take a similar but slightly different tilt—much more than just what church my child is going to be raised in (which, btw, is a very very grave matter, I acknowledge): I take it as a matter that a husband and wife are called to be united to each other in the flesh—perpetually—as a domestic church. How then can they be a “domestic church” if they are not even united in the same church (religion?). The domestic church exists even if there are no children in it. Catholic marriages are traditionally witnessed before the same altar at which the Holy Eucharist, the sacrament of unity, is offered every Sunday and more. What does that say about the unity of the Catholic church when a Catholic family cannot even receive from the same chalice each Sunday or eat of the same Host? Marriage, according to St. Paul, is an emblem of the marriage of Christ and His Church. In my own opinion (and not that of the Church), a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic is still imperfect as regards this symbolism even absent domestic disputes and headaches. This is NOT to say that these marriages cannot work out, it is just to say that the couple’s calling to be an eschatological reminder to the world of what remains after the grave (the unity of Christ and His Church) cannot entirely be fulfilled (once again, only in my own opinion, as regards the imperfection).

Also, getting back to matter of raising your children, I admit, a more pragmatic concern: what about giving your children every opportunity to grow in faith, such that hopefully he/she will attain to a life of everlasting bliss? For us Catholics, this includes reception of Holy Communion, the making of a Holy Confession throughout your lifespan, and before any of this, the bringing of your child to Holy Baptism. Remember that God gave these things for our benefit. Also, these opportunities for your children include, according to the Catechism, you and your spouse being the first teachers of the faith and morals to your children. What are you going to teach your children if you do not agree on what it is? I know that some of my classmates who had a Catholic and a non-Catholic parent, respectively, were not raised Catholic.

Also, I’m not making a judgment on the OP, but often when a Catholic dates a non-Catholic, it is the Catholic that converts to the non-Catholic church rather than the reverse.I’ll offer that one of the reasons I am still Catholic is that both of my parents agreed to the basic Truth of the Holy Faith. Yes, there have been many disputes over temporal matters, but they agreed on one Faith. One and only one. They may or may not have been able to give a precise theological treatise as to what moment the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of our Savior, but they agreed that there was only one Church founded by Christ. Would there have been a disagreement between the two, I may be something else today—I don’t know, maybe either Eastern Orthodox or Anglican. Their marriage has lasted from the time they got married over 30 years ago to this very day.

Finally to say nothing of the divorce rate in the western world.

These are no slight matters.

Many years,

Paul R. Viola

 

[angelic06]

Another add-on to my previous post: while we love our fellow Christians, we must also love the Truth which we Catholics humbly believe to be revealed to us by Christ our King…marriage is also a time for the spouses themselves to grow in faith. Any married Catholics here agree or disagree?

Many years,

Paul R. Viola
(a single Catholic layman)

 

[Chris_Marsh]

Not having the Pope in your sex life would be a plus. You can say to my face that I fear what kids, especially the unplanned sort, would do to our marriage if I had one. It is always theoretically possible to get pregnant at any time, even while on the Kotex, until you hit menopause (no periods for two years according to the TV spot FYI).

The Pope is impersonating a deity to get women to make serial kids whether they or their husbands want them or can care for them. I have a Children’s International kid in Guatemala.

I reiterate I do not want to be a hands off dad, present but uninvolved, just a passenger letting Mom drive. It looks like my dad was completely willing to be a hands off dad. He worked late and went yard saling on weekends (he did start a book and record selling business after retiring, and did manage to make some money at it, because he paid attention to collectibles). He died before the Internet was big. I think the only thing Dad taught my little brother was to run from responsibility when Dad, and then Mom, were sick and dying and needed my help (and his).

 

[Rascalking]

Not having the Pope in your sex life would be a plus. You can say to my face that I fear what kids, especially the unplanned sort, would do to our marriage if I had one. It is always theoretically possible to get pregnant at any time, even while on the Kotex, until you hit menopause (no periods for two years according to the TV spot FYI).

The Pope is impersonating a deity to get women to make serial kids whether they or their husbands want them or can care for them.).

Aside from the rubbish about the Pope, you make one good point-we are all afraid of having kids. If your not afraid of it, you shouldn’t have them.

 

[Chris_Marsh]

Everyone is afraid of having kids and yet they have them.

Exceptions are RARE. A best friend and wife have ruled them out with Scripturally valid permanent means.

So why do people who are afraid of having kids have them? Accidents? Not using BC? Not using multiple layers?

 

[Chris_Marsh]

Also, I’m not making a judgment on the OP, but often when a Catholic dates a non-Catholic, it is the Catholic that converts to the non-Catholic church rather than the reverse.

Protestantism would seem less restrictive with more freedom. Nobody questions the right of married people in our church to use ABC, at least not since 1930.

We have a shorter cast of characters. The preacher, the deacons, God, Jesus, and Spirit. The faith also seems simpler. We never heard of purgatory, and there is no life or death connotation to the Lord’s supper. It is symbolic only, sort of a feel good members only thing. Mary and Joseph don’t take prayers, they are resting just like your mom and dad. Saints refer to living people (any Christian) not to a special dead Christian.

 

[Chris_Marsh]

From reading this and Protestant In Laws, I concede it would remove a lot of challenges indeed to marry another Protestant. Right now I am just not seeing much of an alternative in the way of nice or compatible girls, to say nothing of Protestants or even Christians.

My Catholic date suggested I am in the wrong geographic area. Washington seems to attract more Catholics, she said, the South seems to attract more Protestants. At the time I was saved I was in West Virginia about 100 miles from Washington (rather loosely defined, the South does include WV (Deer Hunting for Jesus, Joe Bageant) and I was baptized into a Southern Baptist church near Shepherd University).

I countersuggested to her maybe she’d want some guy certain of his parental ambitions [so she wouldn’t have to say what my mother said (“they’re your kids ma’am” either a legend or a summary of what Dad thought)].

 

[Onegin]

Chris_Marsh has some decent points on the incompatibility between Protestants and Catholics.

I’m not a huge fan of mixed-faith marriages. I have seen them turn out well but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. The unfortunate thing is that, these marriages typically seem to end in an annulment or divorce.

I’m not sure about the Protestant church, but the Catholic church has some built-in preventative measures through the dispensation system (which you are supposed to obtain before marrying outside your faith).

Love may conquer all but I don’t think it can carry two people past something so fundamental as their faith. If you can’t agree on the foundations, then it seems like the rest of the building is doomed to crumble around it.

It’s not like this is an easy conclusion to accept. I have some really wonderful Protestant friends but that’s always going to be an impasse that we’ve been unable to get around.

 

[eaglehwsj]

Also, I’m not making a judgment on the OP, but often when a Catholic dates a non-Catholic, it is the Catholic that converts to the non-Catholic church rather than the reverse.

Protestantism would seem less restrictive with more freedom. Nobody questions the right of married people in our church to use ABC, at least not since 1930.

We have a shorter cast of characters. The preacher, the deacons, God, Jesus, and Spirit. The faith also seems simpler. We never heard of purgatory, and there is no life or death connotation to the Lord’s supper. It is symbolic only, sort of a feel good members only thing. Mary and Joseph don’t take prayers, they are resting just like your mom and dad. Saints refer to living people (any Christian) not to a special dead Christian.

I may be a little late to the party, but here’s my 2 cents

I started dating a non-denominational christian girl about 10 months ago. Shortly after we started dating, we sat down and had a long conversation about religion. We realized from the beginning that we had to have the same belief system if we were to stay together so from literally day 1, we both freely acknowledged that we wanted to convert each other. (To underscore the importance of a shared faith, I left for a 4 month, unaccompanied training cycle less than a week later. and am looking to be gone at least 3 weeks this summer) After each of us trying to convert the other, she has decided to become Catholic and we were very soon after engaged.

In answer to angelic, it’s not when a catholic dates a non-catholic that people tend to convert, its much more common for the better informed to convert the inadequately catechized. In cases like mine where both parties are well-informed about their faith, it tends to take much longer for one side or the other to convert, if ever. The problem seems to lean that way because many more protestants are trained to question the catholic faith than Catholics are to defend it. (As an aside, I have never heard of a former catholic who actually left the catholic church. Every time, they left what they thought was the catholic church.)

Chris, Protestantism seems less restrictive because it is less restrictive
Protestantism tends to be more likely to bow to societal pressures and so be easier to follow. Your comment about ABC (I would assume A______ Birth Control?) is spot on. Until shortly before the 1930, EVERYONE (at least every church) questioned ABC, actually, they all said unequivocally NO! It was only as society started to shift that you saw a shift in official teachings of various protestant churches.

In the same way, protestantism is simpler because some things are left out. Everything in the Catholic church is right and good for your salvation :getholy:

 

[Chris_Marsh]

ABC = Artificial Birth Control

 

[Chris_Marsh]

My Catholic date suggested I am in the wrong geographic area. Washington seems to attract more Catholics, she said, the South seems to attract more Protestants. At the time I was saved I was in West Virginia about 100 miles from Washington (rather loosely defined, the South does include WV (Deer Hunting for Jesus, Joe Bageant) and I was baptized into a Southern Baptist church near Shepherd University).

I was exactly saved in Martinsburg, WV, the largest city in the Eastern Panhandle. Martinsburg is specified by Joe Bageant in Deer Hunting for Jesus by ZIP code, 25401. Bageant seems to describe the Winchester VA-WV Panhandle region as Protestant territory, affirming what the woman said. I think the whole Appalachian region of all of West Virginia and parts of surrounding states could be described as Protestant.

Covenant Baptist Church is in Shepherdstown near the Shepherd University campus, two miles out of town. At least while I was at the university CBC worked closely with the campus Christian Student Union.

Too bad, so sad my job is in the shadow of the Pentagon. Winchester and WV are the worst places to work if you have an education- you’re trying to flee down here. I had an opportunity to live between Martinsburg and Berkeley Springs by possibly trying to mortgage my brother’s share of the parental homestead, but neither of us claimed the opportunity to trade a tech career and apartment in the city for grinding underemployment, bad roads, and a $30K mortgage in WV.

 

[Chris_Marsh]

It’s not like this is an easy conclusion to accept. I have some really wonderful Protestant friends but that’s always going to be an impasse that we’ve been unable to get around.

I didn’t like ignoring Julie, who probably could have been interested in me, but she was not evangelical whatsoever and to my knowledge, agnostic. Certainly self-proclaimed pro-choice.

I liked her too and to make matters worse she is child free with her husband Terry.

I am beginning to think my dad never really wanted kids because he kept himself busy with late nights at work and yard sales.
I am afraid that I am too much like my dad, working late.
I don’t want to make children I don’t care about and burden the woman I love with their entire care. (Mom had alcohol issues.)
I am beginning to think the correct answer is not to have children at all.
My best friend showed me how that would be accomplished. (Outpatient surgery in an urologist’s office.)

You can also add other nice women, somewhat confused, Rebecca, would call herself Methodist but dedicated to gay rights. I don’t think that is saved… Or much more recently Martha, who told me she was a non-practicing Jew. Judaism, fine, but I really need a Christian to watch my back…

I’ve made sacrifices for Jesus, and I’ve been lonely for it.