E
Edgar_Davie
Guest
Can anyone furnish information on the apparent differences between the Synoptics vs John on the day of crusifiction?
Edgar Davie
Edgar Davie
- Status
F
Fidelis
Guest
There are an unbelievably large number of threads on this already, some of them very recent. If you go to the top of this page and do a “Search” I’m sure you will find what you’re looking for. 
D
Della
Guest
But only if he spells crucifixion correctly.There are an unbelievably large number of threads on this already, some of them very recent. If you go to the top of this page and do a “Search” I’m sure you will find what you’re looking for.
A
anawim
Guest
Edgar Davie:
Here is a combined arrangement:
Lk. 23:26-43; Mt. 27:31-44; Mk. 15:21-32; Jn. 19:17-27
Lk. 23:44-49; Mt. 27:45-56; Mk. 15:33-41; Jn. 19:28-30
What aspect are you referring to?
Here is a combined arrangement:
Lk. 23:26-43; Mt. 27:31-44; Mk. 15:21-32; Jn. 19:17-27
Lk. 23:44-49; Mt. 27:45-56; Mk. 15:33-41; Jn. 19:28-30
D
Della
Guest
I think it is important to understand that God wasn’t interested in all the details matching in every respect among the Gospel accounts. Each Gospel writer wrote what he knew and from his own perspective. Inspiration doesn’t mean total uniformity in minor details, such as how many people were in any one scene or exactly who did what when, and that sort of thing. The important thing in each is that the crucifixion happened and Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, which is really the crux of what the stories are meant to convey to us in the way of factual matters.
E
Edgar_Davie
Guest
Della,
I appreciate your position, unfortunately, that explination does little for a Jew who says the Apostles themselves don’t know how long he was in the tomb or to a Muslim who says the NT is so heavily redacted that it means nothing.
As Far as the people at the Tomb, I suggest “The Easter Enigma” by Wenham
Thanks
Edgar Davie
PS As to my spelling of Cruc(s)ifiction- I’m dyslexic and spelling impared
I appreciate your position, unfortunately, that explination does little for a Jew who says the Apostles themselves don’t know how long he was in the tomb or to a Muslim who says the NT is so heavily redacted that it means nothing.
As Far as the people at the Tomb, I suggest “The Easter Enigma” by Wenham
Thanks
Edgar Davie
PS As to my spelling of Cruc(s)ifiction- I’m dyslexic and spelling impared
A
anawim
Guest
So what was your specific dilemma/question?
D
Della
Guest
Edgar Davie:
And if anyone in the early Church had been devious enough to edit the original Gospels, don’t you think they would have ironed out any seeming inconsistencies in the texts? I sure would have.
You see, there are answers for such accusations, still that doesn’t mean that those who make them will accept any explanation(s). But, that’s not our job as apologists–to make people accept anything. All we are expected to do it put the truth before people and let God do the rest.
Well, as to accusations that the Apostles didn’t know how long Jesus was in the tomb, with all due respect to the Jews, that’s preposterous. If anyone should know what was meant by 3 days and 3 nights it ought to be those who lived at the time.
And if anyone in the early Church had been devious enough to edit the original Gospels, don’t you think they would have ironed out any seeming inconsistencies in the texts? I sure would have.
You see, there are answers for such accusations, still that doesn’t mean that those who make them will accept any explanation(s). But, that’s not our job as apologists–to make people accept anything. All we are expected to do it put the truth before people and let God do the rest.
Thank you for your kind recommendation, but I only cited any seeming inconsistencies in who was where and when as an example. I don’t have a problem with it myself.
It’s no big deal, but if you had entered a search with crucifixion misspelled, it wouldn’t have helped you–that’s all I meant. I’m not a brilliant linguist or speller, either, although I have no good excuse. I had to look up “redacted” in order to understand what you were talking about. We’re all learners here.
L
LilyM
Guest
As someone with some legal training and a particular interest in criminal law, I can tell you this - eyewitnesses are not especially reliable as far as their memory of details after the event.
If you’re an Oprah watcher (I have been in the past) she did a story a few years ago where she staged a crime among a group of people lined up to be in her audience. She showed the actual event so that the criminal and everything they did could clearly be seen. Then the witnesses were questioned - very shortly afterwards mind you - and they didn’t agree among themselves about the details, and minor things like colour of the criminal’s shirt most of them got wrong.
Imagine then writing the Gospels decades after the event, possibly second-hand (as Mark and Luke reputedly did) or worse. The miracle is that they agree at all, and I’d be suspicious if they were perfectly in sync.
If you’re an Oprah watcher (I have been in the past) she did a story a few years ago where she staged a crime among a group of people lined up to be in her audience. She showed the actual event so that the criminal and everything they did could clearly be seen. Then the witnesses were questioned - very shortly afterwards mind you - and they didn’t agree among themselves about the details, and minor things like colour of the criminal’s shirt most of them got wrong.
Imagine then writing the Gospels decades after the event, possibly second-hand (as Mark and Luke reputedly did) or worse. The miracle is that they agree at all, and I’d be suspicious if they were perfectly in sync.
O
OriginalJS
Guest
This is so, so true! I also have legal training an a lot of experience with eyewitnesses. I have read more detailed studies that are very revealing.
I came across an ad hoc study of interest to me late last year. A professor who was teaching a class on the afternoon of 9/11 asked students to write down exactly where they were and what they were doing when they first heard about the bombing that morning. He collected and retained the papers. A year later he had them again write down where they were and what they were doing when they first heard about the bombing on 9/11. He compared the papers. Not only were there great disparities after only one year, several of the students refused to believe what they had written down a year earlier and insisted that what they wrote the second year was more accurate that what they wrote on the day of the bombing.
People’s memories are very malleable. The same thing must have been true for writers of the scriptures.
On a final note, two questions I have on occasion asked married witnesses in court who insisted they had perfect memory of facts are these? Are you married? Has your wife ever recalled some occurrence differently than you remembered it?
A
anawim
Guest
When it comes to criminals, a NYC police officer told me that if there was more than one suspect, if they all told the exact same story, he knew they were lying. If their details differed slightly, he knew they were telling the truth.
Differences in the accounts are to be expected. If there weren’t we’d know it was false.
M
mich2
Guest
Edgar Davie:
So why did Jesus mentioned “three days and three nights”?
My opinion is this; the four gospels centers on the “passion of Christ” which includes not only the crucifixion, but the last supper as well.Jesus did not say that he would be in the “tomb” for three days and three nights, but in the belly of the earth, which means Hadies, that is, a spiritual state of being separation from God due to sin. Since, as a Catholic, I do not separate the sacrifice of the Holy Mass from the sacrifice of the cross, it would seem that Jesus took the sins of the world upon Himself at the last supper, giving Him a state where he also was separated from the Father, since death is the fruit of sin. The scriptures mentioned that “His soul was distressed to the point of death”.The whole Passion lasted three days and three nights.
While John speaks of a high sabbath, it seems to have corresponded with the same day as the weekly sabbath.I actually have always thought that “high sabbath” designated this specific property; that is, the yearly sabbath falling on the same day as the weekly sabbath.Anyways, taking the Gospel of Luke, on the road to Emmaus, the disciples, while walking with Jesus during the Sunday afternoon after the resurrection, mentioned that "the chief priests handed Jesus over to be crucified…and that they were still within the “third day”.Sunday afternoon, going back no more than three days,testifies to a time “after” thursday afternoon, which is the time that Jesus was handed over to the Romans to be delivered after the last supper.
So why did Jesus mentioned “three days and three nights”?
My opinion is this; the four gospels centers on the “passion of Christ” which includes not only the crucifixion, but the last supper as well.Jesus did not say that he would be in the “tomb” for three days and three nights, but in the belly of the earth, which means Hadies, that is, a spiritual state of being separation from God due to sin. Since, as a Catholic, I do not separate the sacrifice of the Holy Mass from the sacrifice of the cross, it would seem that Jesus took the sins of the world upon Himself at the last supper, giving Him a state where he also was separated from the Father, since death is the fruit of sin. The scriptures mentioned that “His soul was distressed to the point of death”.The whole Passion lasted three days and three nights.- Status