dazed and confused

  • Thread starter Thread starter BennyD
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

BennyD

Guest
Why are my church teachings and beliefs so extensive, so confusing?I read in my bible:
The unfolding of your words gives light: it gives understanding to the simple Psalm119:130

but all i am right now is in the dark and confused. can somebody help me?

thank you
 
ja I can help if I know precisely what you are confused about? I
can certainly try. Is it this scripture, or something else? your profile states you are non denom, so how can I help you friend?
 
well, in my bible i can’t find anything about mary except the Rosary prayer from that angel and in Luke11:27-28 said that blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it rather than Mary being called blessed. it’s like Jesus him self is denying her any authority…

well and my church calls her queen of heaven and stuff and that’s a big thing to be called

am i just misenterpreting scripture
??
thank you
 
Okay, here is what is said from the book, “Christs Mother and Ours”
By Father Oscar Lukefahr. Page 30 chapter 2 “What the new testament says about Mary”

While He ( Jesus ) was saying this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts that nursed you!” But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the woird of God and obey it” ( Luke 11: 27-28)

In this English version, it may appear that Jesus is correcting the
woman who praises His Mother. However, the Greek word translated as rather can mean “no instead…” or it can mean “yes, and what is more…” Even if the first interpretation os preferred, Luke is saying that Mary is to be praised more because…

to be continued…
 
40.png
BennyD:
well, in my bible i can’t find anything about mary except the Rosary prayer from that angel and in Luke11:27-28 said that blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it rather than Mary being called blessed. it’s like Jesus him self is denying her any authority…

well and my church calls her queen of heaven and stuff and that’s a big thing to be called

am i just misenterpreting scripture
??
thank you
Click to expand...
Thomas Aquinas says that Scripture is like a river where the infant may safely play and the elephant float at large. So the answer to your question is: Yes. You are “misinterpreting” Scripture. Interpreting Scripture is not a line-by-line proposition but a comprehensive exercise requring a broad and deep knowledge of the whole canon.

You refer to “your church” calling Mary Queen of Heaven but your profile says you are nondenominational. In my experience, people who label themselves as nondenominational have a violent aversion to anything, even Scripture, which touches the Blessed Virgin Mary, especially if it speaks of her with honor and respect. What nondenominational church says “my church calls Mary Queen of Heaven?”
 
40.png
Marilena:
Okay, here is what is said from the book, “Christs Mother and Ours”
By Father Oscar Lukefahr. Page 31 chapter 2 “What the new testament says about Mary”
Part 2

she keeps God’s word than because she is the physical mother of Jesus. But the context of Luke’s Gospel points to the second interpretation. For in the infancy narrative, Elizabeth first praises Mary for her physical motherhood: " Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the
fruit of your womb" ( 1:45 ) She then praises Mary as a true believer in whom
God’s word is accomplished.: “And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her by the Lord” ( 1:45) Therefore, Luke praises Mary because she is the Mother of the Lord, and because she hears and observes God’s word.
Click to expand...
 
This book written by Father Oscar Lukefahr goes imto great detail about Mary. You can obtain a freecopy of it via mail, or online.
It is a study though. to get it, you can order it from:

amm.org/chss.htm

I suggest that if you want an indepth knowledge about Mary, that you order the book and take a good lookat it. It will make your understanding of Mary very clear. It is worth the read!

In chapter 2 of the book, it also explains about Mary’s Assumption.
( page 64-66 )
 
Benny:
I appreciate how you are trying to broaden your understanding of sacred scripture. I pasted some commentary about the verse you mention, Luke 11:27-28. Also the related Luke 8:21, but I think the New American Bible footnotes are going out on a limb . . .
I know many people have problems with the footnotes of the NAB. I’m still learning. Maybe those who are more learned than me in sacred scripture study can elaborate . . . esp on the NAB footnotes for Luke 8:21?

Luke 11:27-28 [RSV]
27: As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!” 28: But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
**Haydock Commentary: **
Luke 11:28 Greek: Menounge, imo vero, yes indeed. Our Saviour does not here wish to deny what the woman had said, but rather to confirm it: indeed how could he deny, as Calvin impiously maintained, that his mother was blessed? By these words, he only wishes to tell his auditors what great advantage they might obtain by attending to his words. For the blessed Virgin, as St. Augustine says, was more happy in having our Saviour in her heart and affections, than in having conceived him in her womb. (Tirinus)
NAB Footnotes:
[Luke 27-28] The beatitude in Luke 11:28 should not be interpreted as a rebuke of the mother of Jesus; see the note on Luke 8:21. Rather, it emphasizes (like Luke 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.

Luke 8:19-21 [RSV]
19: Then his mother and his brothers came to him, but they could not reach him for the crowd. 20: And he was told, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see you.” 21: But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”

**Haydock Commentary: **
Luke 8:20. These brethren were not the sons of the blessed Virgin Mary, mother of God, as Helvidius wickedly taught; nor yet the sons of Joseph, by another wife; for, as St. Jerome writeth, not only Mary, but Joseph also, observed virginity. (Contra Helvidium, chap. ix. et ibidem, chap. viii.) — In the scriptural idiom, cousins are called brethren. (Bristow)
Luke 8:21. There is no tie of affinity and friendship so proper, and so becoming man, as that made by faith in Christ, and strengthened by charity. (Tirinus)
NAB Footnotes:
[Luke 8:19] His brothers: see the note on Mark 6:3.
[Luke 8:21] The family of Jesus is not constituted by physical relationship with him but by obedience to the word of God. In this, Luke agrees with the Marcan parallel (Mark 3:31-35), although by omitting Mark 3:33 and especially Mark 3:20-21 Luke has softened the Marcan picture of Jesus’ natural family. Probably he did this because Mary has already been presented in Luke 1:38 as the obedient handmaid of the Lord who fulfills the requirement for belonging to the eschatological family of Jesus; cf also Luke 11:27-28.

New American Bible usccb.org/nab/bible/
Revised Standard Version (not the CE) etext.virginia.edu/rsv.browse.html
Haydock’s NT Commentary: haydock1859.tripod.com/index.html
Douay Rheims Bible: catholicfirst.com/searchengine.cfm
 
I didn’t have room to expound on Luke 11:28: [DRB] Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it."
I’m focusing on this particular translation of the “Yea Rather . . .”
Note the Haydock Commentary I last posted mentions the Greek Menounge, imo vero, yes indeed.
Here is the Strong’s Commentary on the Greek word:**
G3304
**μενοῦνγε
menounge
men-oon’-geh
From G3303 and G3767 and G1065; so then at least: - nay but, yea doubtless (rather, verily).

So, Our Lord seems not to be “correcting” the woman’s statement in Luke 11:27, but expanding/expounding on it. He agrees with her and then says to everyone that they should attend to God’s word. Interestingly enough, in Luke 1, Mary also attends to God’s word. The Angel Gabriel was a messenger (angel means messenger) announcing God’s word/Word! Spoken word, and in this case, The Word made flesh!❤️
 
Benny, you may reach more forum participants interested in your topic if you update the thread title to something more specific like “Mary in Luke Ch 11”, or “Mary: Scripture & Tradition questions”, or “Jesus’ words in scripture: “blessed”?”

Just a suggestion. :twocents:
 
40.png
BennyD:
well, in my bible i can’t find anything about mary except the Rosary prayer from that angel and in Luke11:27-28…
Click to expand...
The article on “The Blessed Virgin Mary” in the online 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia lists numerous other verses that mention the Virgin Mary.
 
But he said, More happy are they who give hearing to the word of God and keep it. (BBE)

Hi Benny, you got to remember that we were not there to hear exactly how Jesus said what he said. He could have wispered “rather” with little emotion, and shouted “blessed”, “more happy”.

When looking at others interpretations it is best to be charitable unless the interpretation is clearly contray to the text and clearly denies a major doctrine like the deity of Christ.

Try saying verse 28 out loud, each time placing emphesis on different words to see how it is said changes the meaning.
Also, try saying the verse with different emotions and see how the meaning changes. We simply do not know for sure how Jesus said this verse.
 
Is it just me, or do Benny’s posts seem rather disingenuous?
Pronunciation: "di-s & n-'jen-y&-w&sFunction: adjective: lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : CALCULATING
  • dis·in·gen·u·ous·ly adverb
  • dis·in·gen·u·ous·ness noun
Click to expand...
:hmmm: :hmmm:

In Christ,
Frances (neither dazed nor confused 😉 )
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top