Deacon at mass but not on altar Communion question

[pigpen]

Thanks for all your replies, and a special thanks to the deacons/candidates for their comments.

Just to clarify, this deacon is not sitting with his wife, but alone. I have heard that a married deacon’s first commitment is to his wife, and so it makes sense to sit with her at mass. I don’t know if this is accurate or not. Dicerning, can you refer me to any document or book which might help me to better understand the role of the deacon? I liked your comment that “the deacon is diminishing what he has been ordained to do”.

I recall that a past deacon was on the altar at almost every mass, and only sat with the congregation if he was with his wife.

But I agree with the comments that whether he is vested and on the altar or not, the deacon should be serving the Precious Blood rather than the EMHC.

Ordinarily, I would expect the pastor to make the decision as to the deacon’s role. However, our laity have bullied our pastor into submission, that’s a whole other can of worms I’d best not get into!!

 

[TheMc]

But I agree with the comments that whether he is vested and on the altar or not, the deacon should be serving the Precious Blood rather than the EMHC.

Even if he is sitting with his wife, he can still go up to distribute. I would imagine most EMHCs are married, and they distribute, so what’s stopping a deacon from doing the same thing? People need to keep in mind the role of an EMHC, and the role of an ordained person.

 

[benedictgal]

As a deacon who is assigned to a parish with two other deacons. On weekdays if I attend Mass (I cannot very often because I am at work at the time of our weekday Mass) I do sit in the pew because Father prefers it that way. On weekends, I am on the altar (or “on duty” as you mentioned) one out of every three weekends. So the two weekends I am not “on duty” and I sit in the pew with my wife who is very happy to have her husband next to her during a Mass. When I am assisting Father I serve as a minister of the Precious Blood as that is a deacon’s primary responsibility or service. In my parish we deacons are only scheduled to give give the homily once a quarter so we assist at the altar much more often than we preach. Since there is always one deacon assisting and in addition to the priest and deacon we use 10 Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion at every Mass our pastor feels that those of us deacons who are not “on duty” should attend Mass with our families. So that is what we do.

I am sadden by your comment that you feel your deacon is not open to questions, some deacons sometimes feel like they are “put on the spot” with very deep theological questions and would prefer to research or take time to answer such a question. But I think in this case you should ask - because you may find out he will answer this question with “That how our pastor prefers it” like in my case.

Deacon:

Perhaps this quote from Redemptionis Sacramentum might help:

[128.] **Holy Mass and other liturgical celebrations, which are acts of Christ and of the people of God hierarchically constituted, are ordered in such a way that the sacred ministers and the lay faithful manifestly take part in them each according to his own condition. **It is preferable therefore that “Priests who are present at a Eucharistic Celebration, unless excused for a good reason, should as a rule exercise the office proper to their Order and thus take part as concelebrants, wearing the sacred vestments. Otherwise, they wear their proper choir dress or a surplice over a cassock”.218 It is not fitting, except in rare and exceptional cases and with reasonable cause, for them to participate at Mass, as regards to externals, in the manner of the lay faithful.

Even though the part in quote speaks to priest, the sentence preceding it bears some noting. Deacon are clergy and thus should exercise what is proper to them. Furthermore, according to Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[154.] As has already been recalled, “the only minister who can confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist in persona Christi is a validly ordained Priest”.254 Hence the name “minister of the Eucharist” belongs properly to the Priest alone. Moreover, also by reason of their sacred Ordination, the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are the Bishop, the Priest and the Deacon,255 to whom it belongs therefore to administer Holy Communion to the lay members of Christ’s faithful during the celebration of Mass. In this way their ministerial office in the Church is fully and accurately brought to light, and the sign value of the Sacrament is made complete.

I can understand the family argument, but, the authoritative documents of the Church also should be considered.

 

[benedictgal]

If they are on vacation or want to sit with their families they have that right. I believe too many people are overly upset with the idea of EMHCs. My point is that they have a right to do this if they desire. And if they are not in their own diocese they do not have a right at all.

Actually, they can present credentials to the pastor of the parish they are visiting and offer their assistance in much the same way as a vacationing priest does when he is visiting a parish.

 

[Joannm]

Actually, they can present credentials to the pastor of the parish they are visiting and offer their assistance in much the same way as a vacationing priest does when he is visiting a parish.

What credentials? My husband is a deacon and has nothing in his possession that identifies him as one. He does have his letter granting faculties but he would not carry that around and a photo copy is easily forged.

Even in our parish, if a priest is coming for a wedding or visiting for a weekend, we require a letter from his bishop and proof of background check and VIRTUS training. That usually takes a week or more to produce.

 

[puzzleannie]

the point is the deacon belongs to the bishop, who sets the rules for his diocese, and you presume the pastor of that parish is following the rules until you have definite proof otherwise. Go back to assisting at Mass and rid your mind of these useless speculations on what other people do or don’t do. If you are not in charge of liturgy at that parish, it is of no concern to you. Your concern is only with the mystery going on at the altar. There is no good fruit that will result in your participation at Mass if you allow yourself to be distracted by these things.

 

[Spirithound]

What credentials? My husband is a deacon and has nothing in his possession that identifies him as one. He does have his letter granting faculties but he would not carry that around and a photo copy is easily forged.

Even in our parish, if a priest is coming for a wedding or visiting for a weekend, we require a letter from his bishop and proof of background check and VIRTUS training. That usually takes a week or more to produce.

Are the days of the celebret long past?

 

[benedictgal]

the point is the deacon belongs to the bishop, who sets the rules for his diocese, and you presume the pastor of that parish is following the rules until you have definite proof otherwise. Go back to assisting at Mass and rid your mind of these useless speculations on what other people do or don’t do. If you are not in charge of liturgy at that parish, it is of no concern to you. Your concern is only with the mystery going on at the altar. There is no good fruit that will result in your participation at Mass if you allow yourself to be distracted by these things.

The documents do state that the clergy should be exercising their proper role. Priests and deacons need to be where they are supposed to be. This is not one of those things that the bishop can easily abrogate. The OP does have cause for concern here, as EMHCs are only needed if there is not sufficient clergy to assist with the distribution of Holy Communion.

 

[Cristiano]

Are the days of the celebret long past?

Today too many men pretend to be ordained. There is also the problem with some ordained men whose faculties have been removed. The Bishops must be careful to protect the faithfuls.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Even in our parish, if a priest is coming for a wedding or visiting for a weekend, we require a letter from his bishop and proof of background check and VIRTUS training. That usually takes a week or more to produce.

And people wonder why the clergy don’t wnat to be more involed?

 

[Mrs_Sally]

In my diocese, most deacons are not assigned to their home parish. So the deacon is not even there unless he is serving in the Mass. During communion all the priests and the deacon come out to distribute communion if they are present in the parish. They come out from the sacristy and return there after communion is distributed. If the deacon is serving the Mass (ie, processed in, etc.) he stays and processes out. Since we don’t offer the precious Blood, we have no more than 4 EMHCs with however many clergy (up to 5) are present in the parish at that Mass. Our parish is huge and every Sunday Mass is packed–church seats several 1000.

 

[Spirithound]

Today too many men pretend to be ordained. There is also the problem with some ordained men whose faculties have been removed. The Bishops must be careful to protect the faithfuls.

This is precisely what the celebret is supposed to do. Perhaps I’m a little mixed up and Joan was describing a celebret without using the name…?

 

[Dicerning]

In my diocese, most deacons are not assigned to their home parish…

This is interesting. My Bishop has said many times the priority list of the deacon should be Family, Job, Church duties. (of course God before all but that is different from “church duties”)

Many deacon publicaitons stress this as well. That is why my Bishop says he would most often assign a deacon to his home parish. He wouldn’t want to split up familes on the Lord’s day. SInce I have small Children I am appreciative of this. But realize I would go wherever I am assigned.

 

[pigpen]

the point is the deacon belongs to the bishop, who sets the rules for his diocese, and you presume the pastor of that parish is following the rules until you have definite proof otherwise. Go back to assisting at Mass and rid your mind of these useless speculations on what other people do or don’t do. If you are not in charge of liturgy at that parish, it is of no concern to you. Your concern is only with the mystery going on at the altar. There is no good fruit that will result in your participation at Mass if you allow yourself to be distracted by these things.

Err, is this directed at me?

If so, it seems a bit harsh. I can only guess that never in your 32,000+ posts here have you ever engaged in “useless speculations”…

Much of CA questions would disappear if folks like me couldn’t come here to ask questions.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

This is interesting. My Bishop has said many times the priority list of the deacon should be Family, Job, Church duties. (of course God before all but that is different from “church duties”)

Many deacon publicaitons stress this as well. That is why my Bishop says he would most often assign a deacon to his home parish. He wouldn’t want to split up familes on the Lord’s day. SInce I have small Children I am appreciative of this. But realize I would go wherever I am assigned.

I am not sure of the reasoning, but I have heardsimilar guidelines about family first. I expect the thought is that if the deacon is working on Sunday–ie assisting at Mass-- then he’s not with his family anyway.

Our deacon does not preach. The majority of his work is involved with visiting, sacramental preparation and baptisms, weddings (without a Mass), funerals. So he’s busier on Saturdays than Sundays!

 

[PbloPicasso]

Actually, they can present credentials to the pastor of the parish they are visiting and offer their assistance in much the same way as a vacationing priest does when he is visiting a parish.

Yes, I know this, but first it’s not required and second allowing them is merely a courtesy. My best friend went to his bishop to get permission to say a mass in our hotel. We were visiting from out of town and he made a special effort for us. He’s our children’s godfather as well. When he distributed holy communion to us we knelt.

Further, unless you are a canon lawyer and know very little about the applications of such rules you really aren’t as knowledgeable as you think. I know from our class that when I brought this same thing up I did not initially like the answer because of all the “rules” I thought I knew, but after a while I began to understand things I didn’t.

Personally, I think it is best for the clergy to be on the alter. But I do see the fact that a family deserves dignity as well and that participating in mass as a family is very important and advisable. I also know there are a lot of priests and deacons that kind of do whatever they want to do in spite of what they ought to do. But I also know that it is not required of them unless their bishop instructs them to do so. And or but in order to avoid confusing the laity it’s probably best that the deacon be up helping.

The vacation issue still stands. I’ve asked my pastor about this as well. He confirms what I’ve stated. It’s merely a suggestion that they celebrate mass daily, but is not required. Further, there are limitations on the number of times they are permitted to celebrate as the celebrant. I think a lot of people do not realize just how much the bishop has to do with this and seem to think its merely on the 2 lower orders of the clergy. If I’m ordained I plan to take time off for my family, even when they are adults. a local priests, married, took off all last week to rest. It’s allowed. Clergy need breaks too.

 

[PbloPicasso]

What credentials? My husband is a deacon and has nothing in his possession that identifies him as one. He does have his letter granting faculties but he would not carry that around and a photo copy is easily forged.

Even in our parish, if a priest is coming for a wedding or visiting for a weekend, we require a letter from his bishop and proof of background check and VIRTUS training. That usually takes a week or more to produce.

The letter is his credentials. It’s not like they have an ID. But it would be a good idea.

 

[PbloPicasso]

I am not sure of the reasoning, but I have heardsimilar guidelines about family first. I expect the thought is that if the deacon is working on Sunday–ie assisting at Mass-- then he’s not with his family anyway.

Our deacon does not preach. The majority of his work is involved with visiting, sacramental preparation and baptisms, weddings (without a Mass), funerals. So he’s busier on Saturdays than Sundays!

I hope that I’ll be assigned to a parish with a pastor that allows me to preach at least once or twice per month. That’s what I feel mostly called to do, along with serving the poor, sick and imprisoned. I also feel drawn to baptize as I did in my former Protestant life. In fact, I baptized my oldest son before we came home. However, I believe my barely practicing Catholic dad may has secretly baptized him on a rare and strange middle of the night visit from out of state. I’m actually glad that he did, but there was no proof or admission of it. My brother and I were secretly baptized too I’m told, without mom’s knowledge.

 

[Dicerning]

I am not sure of the reasoning, but I have heardsimilar guidelines about family first. I expect the thought is that if the deacon is working on Sunday–ie assisting at Mass-- then he’s not with his family anyway.

Our deacon does not preach. The majority of his work is involved with visiting, sacramental preparation and baptisms, weddings (without a Mass), funerals. So he’s busier on Saturdays than Sundays!

Its too bad your deacon cannot preach. I know that Many Dioceses have more intense progrmas than others. Our diocese requires completing the Masters In pastoral theology at the local university. We attend as a class but there are others who are not going to be deacons in our class. Total program is 7 years if you count the two years of ministry institute which is required prior to admission. This oru 3rd year of the actual program (2 more to go!) we started preaching the liturgy of the hours to our class. Sometimes the BISHOP is there with us for LOH so we have to preach in front of him too!!! and the occaisional retired priest and University faculty member. Its super experience. We also have to take several homilitics classes taught by faculty. Also 3 homily workshops and next summer we have to attend a week long homiletic intensive at St. Meinrads out of Indiana (which is like 1/2 across the country). I guess our Bishop want to make sure that when we are asked to preach we will know how to do it. Its amazing the work that goes into prepping for a homily. Theological reflection and understanding exegetical technique is parmount. Sorry I ramble.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Its too bad your deacon cannot preach. I know that Many Dioceses have more intense progrmas than others. Our diocese requires completing the Masters In pastoral theology at the local university. We attend as a class but there are others who are not going to be deacons in our class. Total program is 7 years if you count the two years of ministry institute which is required prior to admission. This oru 3rd year of the actual program (2 more to go!) we started preaching the liturgy of the hours to our class. Sometimes the BISHOP is there with us for LOH so we have to preach in front of him too!!! and the occaisional retired priest and University faculty member. Its super experience. We also have to take several homilitics classes taught by faculty. Also 3 homily workshops and next summer we have to attend a week long homiletic intensive at St. Meinrads out of Indiana (which is like 1/2 across the country). I guess our Bishop want to make sure that when we are asked to preach we will know how to do it. Its amazing the work that goes into prepping for a homily. Theological reflection and understanding exegetical technique is parmount. Sorry I ramble.

You will like St. Meinrads. It in some Beautiful counrty. Not sure were in Iowa you are but is could not be more than about 600 miles from you. only a 1/4 of way across the courty.

EDIT: from Dubuque Iowa to St. Meinrads in indiana is 507 miles. about a 8 hr drive.