Deacon Low Mass

[GabrielCM]

Dear friends, I’ve looking everywhere (including here) the detailed function that a deacon could take part during a Low Mass, but I can’t find it.

First, let me explain why I’m looking for it.
My diocesan parish is the only one to offer the Tradition Latin Mass. As a regular parish, we struggle to “improve” (better chants, vestments, etc).
Sadly, my pastor doesn’t have any other priest to help him, so he only offers a Low Mass once a month.
Recently, a permanent Deacon has offered to help him. So I’ve been searching for what could be the duties of a deacon during a Low Mass.

If I’m not mistaken, a deacon can help giving communion and later bring back the pyx back to the tabernacle, right? When bringing it back to the tabernacle (which, sadly, isn’t in the sanctuary) may the altar boys form the procession as it is with the priest?
That’s pretty much it, isn’t it? I’ve also read that he could do a lot more as an “assistant without cope” during a Missa Cantata as the Missal says, but it would be to hard now.

Also, during the procession, should his stole be on his arm like priests do in ordination masses?

A lot of questions, I hope I’m clear enough.

A.M.D.G et B.M.V
Salve Maria!

 

[OldCAFMember]

A deacon “in choir” puts on his stole at communion. It does not really matter if he carries it in on his arm or leaves it at his place. Most do the latter. In the EF, a deacon did not normally administer communion, so I wouldn’t recommend it, though I have seen it happen.

There aren’t really any special duties for a deacon at Low Mass.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Angelus Press (SSPX) has this which may help:

Ritus Servandus (W. Errata Sheet)

Rubrics for the celebrant at Low Mass and sung Masses, as well as for Solemn High Mass for the celebrant, deacon, subdeacon and some points about the inferior ministers.

angeluspress.org

This might be for altar boys but may cover the deacon as well:

How To Serve Low Mass

Teaches the necessary Latin and the movements with illustrations and responses for serving Low Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal.

angeluspress.org

And obviously, the Missale Romanum:

Altar Missal (Missale Romanum) Green

The only reprinted Altar Missal available in complete conformity with the final revisions made by the Holy See in 1962 to the traditional Roman Missal. Green Cover.

angeluspress.org

Hope they help you.

 

[GabrielCM]

The deacon doesn’t have a biretta yet, so I think the procession with the stole would help identifying him as clergy.
The whole point is the aid during communion.

 

[GabrielCM]

I do have an altar missal here with me, but the ritus servandus doesn’t help much.

 

[TomH1]

You do not really make it clear what the priest needs help with. He shouldn’t need help at a Low Mass unless he has some disability.

There is no deacon involved at Low Mass. The absence of the deacon is, in fact, one of the reasons it is a Low Mass.

If the deacon wanted he could serve the Mass for the priest.

 

[GabrielCM]

I know that.
He offers 4 to 5 masses per Sunday so, if he could give communion faster with the aid of a deacon and purify the chalice while the deacon takes back the pyx to the tabernacle would be easier for him.
He is not disabled, he is an ordinary 50 years old novus ordo priest, so he is not used to the effort any “ever traditional” priest is used to.

 

[TomH1]

Your posts are confusing. First, you are asking about using a deacon at Mass in the Extraordinary Form but this is something that he does only once per month. Then in your most recent post you says he celebrates Mass up to five times on Sundays in the Ordinary Form (OF) and could do with a deacon. Well, in the OF there is no problem. A deacon can assist at any OF Mass and administer communion.

I am afraid I have no idea what you mean by: ‘… so he is not used to the effort any “ever traditional” priest is used to’.

 

[GabrielCM]

I’ll try to make it clear.
My pastor is the only cleric in the parish. He does not have any deacon or vicar to help him.
Every Sunday, he celebrates the Ordinary Form 4 times. Once per month, he adds a TLM. Sometimes he asks for another priest from other parishes to celebrate one of his OF masses, sometimes offers himself the 5 masses.

I don’t mean to judge him, but I have realized that traditional priests who are ordained in the extraordinary form tend to complain less about the pastoral job and the time/energy that it requires.
So, a Deacon would be helpful to him, even if a Low Mass meaning “no ordained assistants required”

One permanent deacon from another parish offered his help. I’ve read what Ecclesia Dei said, so I know it is allowed.
I’m asking for help where to find the exact stuff he can or can not do during a Low Mass.

As I said, the Ritus Servandus wasn’t clear enough for me and my liturgy books didn’t help either.

 

[TomH1]

I’m asking for help where to find the exact stuff he can or can not do during a Low Mass.

Has he asked you to do this? If he requires help I’m sure he would ask for it.

He requires a single altar server, that’s all. Perhaps you could offer to be that altar server.

Why five Masses on a Sunday? Are they all packed out? Does he have permission, do you know, to celebrate five Masses?

 

[GabrielCM]

Yes, he has asked me for this. I’m one of his altar servers.
That’s the normal way in Brazil. I don’t think anyone asks permission anymore, that’s just they way it is nowadays.
There is a mass 8 am at the parish, then he goes to a chapel 10 am, returns to midday mass at the parish, then at night, 7 pm the last mass. When he offers the TLM, it’s usually 5 pm.
I wouldn’t say packed out, but everyone has their own “mass hour”.
He though about removing one, but the ‘backlash’ would give him a headache.

 

[TomH1]

Yes, he has asked me for this. I’m one of his altar servers.

Then he should not. It is not your problem to resolve but his.

That’s the normal way in Brazil.

Church law is what counts, not ‘this is the way we do things here’.

I don’t think anyone asks permission anymore, that’s just they way it is nowadays.

But, that is not the way it should be. The Church does not make her laws on a whim; there are good reasons behind them all.

I wouldn’t say packed out, but everyone has their own “mass hour”.

The number of Masses should be cut. The best thing to do would be to have Masses that will ensure people can get there and fit it in with those who have work commitments.

He though about removing one, but the ‘backlash’ would give him a headache.

The priest is the authority in the parish and he should do this. Instead of this kind of reaction the priest should catechise the people and explain the Church’s norms to them and the reasons behind them.

 

[phil19034]

At the local FSSP parish, I’ve seen a Deacon (seminarian Deacon) give Communion on the left side of the Altar rail (left for the people in the pews, right for the priest)

Otherwise, he sat in choir the whole time. Also, if memory serves me correctly, I saw that same Deacon give a homily once. He put his Deacon’s stole on when giving the homily and then took it off again until Communion.

Otherwise, he simply sat in Choir.

So at a Low Mass, there really isn’t much for a Deacon do to, other than help distribute communion and give a homily a few times a year.

However, theoretically, if 2 Permanent Deacons learn/memorise the Latin prayers and rubrics, they could serve at a High Mass as Sub-Deacon and Deacon*.

• *The reason I say “theoretically” is because most Permanent Deacons have full time, secular jobs and often lack the time to study & practice them. However, if they are motivated to learn, there is nothing preventing a Permanent Deacon from taking on the role of Sub-Deacon and/or Deacon at a High Mass.

God Bless

 

[GabrielCM]

Well, I can’t say much about this. The reality here is that the layman has to teach the priest how to say the mass. To be quite honest, he says that he is not going to study more.
We have an apostolate for the mass here. The priest before mine stopped offering the TLM many years ago because of his age (now he is ‘retired’). So we do the best we can with the priest we have.
I can’t really say much more. . . .

 

[GabrielCM]

I have seen similar on the Internet.
As you are a FSSP parishioner, the tabernacle in your church must be in the sanctuary.
Here, the architecture is modern so Jesus is no longer at the center. We do a little procession to return the pyx to the tabernacle, a Deacon could do this procession with the altar servers, right?

 

[twf]

Regarding your comparison of “OF” priests and “EF institute” priests, the latter tend to have MUCH smaller congregations… so I don’t think your comparison is fair to your priest at all.

Our local FSSP parish has two or three priests and they only have two Masses scheduled on Sunday. A parish not too far from them has three priests but 7 Masses on Sunday, and the crowds are much bigger. It’s not comparable.

 

[phil19034]

I have seen similar on the Internet.
As you are a FSSP parishioner, the tabernacle in your church must be in the sanctuary.
Here, the architecture is modern so Jesus is no longer at the center. We do a little procession to return the pyx to the tabernacle, a Deacon could do this procession with the altar servers, right?

I would image (from a traditionalist point of view) that it would be better for a Deacon sitting in Choir to return the Host to a Tabernacle outside the sanctuary than a layman.

Obviously the vested priest cannot leave the sanctuary, so IMO a Deacon in choir dress would be a good interim solution to this issue.

 

[phil19034]

Well, I can’t say much about this. The reality here is that the layman has to teach the priest how to say the mass.

This is not an issue, in of itself. Some of the best MCs have been lay men and/or non-ordained Brothers. One does not need to be a priest in order to be a good liturgist. And truth be told, sometimes a lay person brings a different & important perspective because they see what the average person in the pew sees vs the only the view from the Sanctuary.

To be quite honest, he says that he is not going to study more. We have an apostolate for the mass here. The priest before mine stopped offering the TLM many years ago because of his age (now he is ‘retired’). So we do the best we can with the priest we have.

To be fair to Ordinary Form priests, they do not always study in the Seminary the same amount of Latin as priests in the FSSP and other Religious Orders/Institutes dedicated to the Extraordinary Form.

Furthermore, there are two kinds of Diocesan priests who celebrate the Extraordinary Form.

1. is the priest who is very interested in the EF & loves studying the rubics, etc. It’s almost a hobby or act of love for this priest.
2. The other diocesan priest is the one who is forced (actual or perceived) into learning the Extraordinary Form by his bishop or parish.

I can’t really say much more. As I said, priests ordained in Novus Ordo have a different mind than those ordained in Ecclesia Dei’s institutes.

I’m not sure this actually fair. I know several diocesan priests, who truly love the Extraordinary Form but were trained with the Novus Ordo. They lead wonderful Extraordinary Form parishes/communities and/or offer wonderful EF Masses.

I think the issue comes from priests who feel forced to offer the mass (again either by their bishop or parish) or under appreciated.

The truth is, the Extraordinary Form is a requires a lot of prep work for a priest not fluent in Latin. If a priest feels forced into it, this can negatively impact his attitude.

Sometimes a priest is asked by his parish, and he agrees to learn the Low Mass. Then, after he is offering the Low Mass, he starts getting requests for a High Mass or being told the Low Mass isn’t enough. Or that they want holy week in the EF, etc.

Offering a Low Mass is one thing, but most people who love the Extraordinary Form want a High Mass. And honestly, that’s just not as easy as some people think.

Father has to find a choir / schola - and that’s not always easy, plus he has to learn how to sing the whole mass. I don’t think all seminaries (esp 20 years ago) all learned how to chant in Latin.

Point is: Even when a diocesan priest is eager to offer the Extraordinary Form, if he is only able to provide the Low Mass, he may often receive enough complaints about the lack of the High Mass to make him feel unappreciated.

But when Ecclesia Dei Institutes are assigned to a parish or community, their long term goal is to be able to provide not only high masses every week, plus Solemn High Masses.

They also have diocesan support in establishing a schola, etc.

 

[TomH1]

As I said, priests ordained in Novus Ordo have a different mind than those ordained in Ecclesia Dei’s institutes.

I am sorry to say this but it really needs to be said. This is theological nonsense. A catholic priest is a Catholic priest. End of story. There is no such thing as a Novus Ordo (a term too often use pejoratively) and an Ecclesia Dei (or whatever term you prefer) priest. A priest is a priest. Period!

 

[GabrielCM]

A priest is a priest is a priest. No doubt. I’m just mentioning mentality.
Let’s not focus on this. I have only mentioned this part because someone said about the priest having to just deal with it by himself.