Deacons

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batteddy:
Well, Deacons, unlike priests…do not confer sacraments.

They do not act in Persona Christi, so perhaps women could be deaconesses ordained to the first grade of Holy Orders. This would allow them to recieve the permanent character and graces of the sacraments for their immortal soul, without giving them the public power they cannot have symbolically.
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“Confer”?

Deacons are ordinary ministers for baptism and matrimony…

There is no “first grade” of Holy Orders…
 
I copied this from another thread in response to a question that I had.

Hippolytus in the third century affirms what was always taught:

“When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215])."
 
AltarMan said:
“Confer”?

Deacons are ordinary ministers for baptism and matrimony…

There is no “first grade” of Holy Orders…
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While that is true in the Latin Rite Church today, it is not true in the Eastern Catholic Churches, nor was it true in the early Church. This is a part of the restoration of the diaconate as a permanent order in the West.

Deacon ed
 
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epr1993:
I copied this from another thread in response to a question that I had.

Hippolytus in the third century affirms what was always taught:

“When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215])."
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Yes, that was true in the west. However, it seems that in the east this was not the case. Women there were ordained with the imposition of hands, and the granting of a stole – all this took place at the altar which is where all ordinations in the East take place. In the same document you cited you will also find this:
XIX. Concerning a deaconess, I Bartholomew make this constitution: O bishop, thou shalt lay thy hands upon her in the presence of the presbytery, and of the deacons and deaconesses, and shall say:–
THE FORM OF PRAYER FOR THE ORDINATION OF A DEACONESS.
XX. O Eternal God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator of man and of woman, who didst replenish with the Spirit Miriam, and Deborah, and Anna, and Huldah; who didst not disdain that Thy only begotten Son should be born of a woman; who also in the tabernacle of the testimony, and in the temple, didst ordain women to be keepers of Thy holy gates,–do Thou now also look down upon this Thy servant, who is to be ordained to the office of a deaconess, and grant her Thy Holy Spirit, and “cleanse her from all filthiness of flesh and spirit,” that she may worthily discharge the work which is committed to her to Thy glory, and the praise of Thy Christ, with whom glory and adoration be to Thee and the Holy Spirit for ever. Amen.
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The council of Chalcedon includes this canon:
CANON XV.
A WOMAN shall not receive the laying on of hands as a deaconess under forty years of age, and then only after searching examination. And if, after she has had hands laid on her and has continued for a time to minister, she shall despise the grace of God and give herself in marriage, she shall be anathematized and the man united to her.
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Deacon Ed
 
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batteddy:
Deacons . . .do not act in Persona Christi. . . .
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In light of this statement, I’d be interested in your take on the Catechism.

1591 The whole Church is a priestly people. Through Baptism all the faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the “common priesthood of the faithful.” Based on this common priesthood and ordered to its service, there exists another participation in the mission of Christ: the ministry conferred by the sacrament of Holy Orders, where the task is to serve in the name and in the person of Christ the Head in the midst of the community.

1592 The ministerial priesthood differs in essence from the common priesthood of the faithful because it confers a sacred power for the service of the faithful. The ordained ministers exercise their service for the People of God by teaching (munus docendi), divine worship (munus liturgicum) and pastoral governance (munus regendi).

1593 Since the beginning, the ordained ministry has been conferred and exercised in three degrees: that of bishops, that of presbyters, and that of deacons. . . .

1584 . . . it is ultimately Christ who acts and effects salvation through the ordained minister . . .
 
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batteddy:
Well, Deacons, unlike priests…do not confer sacraments.
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You are wrong. In the Latin Church deacons baptize and preside at marriages. Yes in the Latin rite it is the couple that confers the sacrament of Marrige, which is different than the Byzantine rite which is why deacons can not preside over marriages there.

Yes I know anyone may baptize but only in cases of emergenices. Deacons can and do preside over the liturgical (for lack of a better word) baptisms. Again this is different in the Byzantine rite.
 
You are wrong. In the Latin Church deacons baptize and preside at marriages.
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I meant that they cannot confer any sacraments that a lay person cannot confer.

Anyone can Baptize. And who can preform marriages depends on Canon Law (in the East it is the priest, in the West it is the couple themselves)

Sure, Deacons are an ordinary minister of baptism, and lay people should only do it an emergency…but this is only really an issue of discipline, not doctrine.

My point was, deacons are not given, inherently, any new powers. They recieve the Character of ordination conforming them more to Christ, and the graces, but not any new sacramental powers. They do not act in persona christi like a priest, which makes the argument for women deacons a bit easier…though, I could see it going either way and would accept it either way…because the three grades of ordination form one sacrament too…
 
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