Dead to the Law - What Does It Mean?

[NotWorthy]

Link, a couple quick questions.

Are you saying that those who are saved are pre-destined to be saved, while those who are not saved were never pre-destined?

Are you saying that once you are Saved (Justified?), you are not subject to the punishments of sin?You can sin time and time again, but you are not to be punished?

I don’t want to go chasing down the wrong rabbit hole, so I’d like to know this before I answer your post.

 

[Linkowski]

Link, a couple quick questions.

Are you saying that those who are saved are pre-destined to be saved, while those who are not saved were never pre-destined?

Are you saying that once you are Saved (Justified?), you are not subject to the punishments of sin?You can sin time and time again, but you are not to be punished?

I don’t want to go chasing down the wrong rabbit hole, so I’d like to know this before I answer your post.

I am more interested in the latter part of my posting concerning Mr. Akin’s assertion regarding Romans 6.

Have a great day!

 

[NotWorthy]

I read an essay by James Akin yesterday that tried to give scriptural support for a mixture of sanctification and justification. Unfortunately, it is in error. The idea is this…

Ro 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed (same word for justified) from sin.

The context, he is saying, is about sanctification - but then the greek word for justified pops up in verse 7! However, this is the sense of being sanctified at salvation - a past event. There is progressive sanctification and positional sanctification.

Also, at justification, we are freed from the law…therefore freed from sin…what does that mean. The answer is in Romans 7:

Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOT COVET.”
8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

So, when we become free from the law we become free fromt he law in the sense that we are no longer servant to the law (which includes the 10 commandments - as indicated by verse 7). You see then, how the law works sin…but then becoming freed from the law…we now can serve righteousness. So, the passage in Romans 6 is not speaking of progressive sanctification (so that we can say justification is also progressive), but positional sanctification…

1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Once justified - the next step is glorification! Freed from the law AND ITS PENALTY… Ro 8:33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;

May God Show Us…

Link,

Which part of this is Jimmy Akin’s essay?

Is this the article in question?

 

[NotWorthy]

What I meant to say, is this cin.org/users/james/files/pastpres.htm the article in question?

 

[NotWorthy]

Link,

I think you’re getting to the crux of the matter with Justification. Mr. Akin describes it as a process, one can have it, then one can lose it. You seem to be saying that Justification is a one time occurrence. You get it, and then it can never be taken away from you.

Is that where this is going?

I have a hard time reading Jimmy Akin. I’ve read a couple of books and just get lost in the shuffle. Sometimes I think Jimmy is about the only person more difficult to comprehend than St. Paul’s Roman Epistle.

 

[Odell]

So if we are dead to the law, can we be charged with sin??

absolutly that is why we must repent.
are you sugesting we no longer need to repent from our sin?

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

That is true provided we remain in Him.

(1 Jn 3:24) “Those who keep the commandments remain in Him.” This verse would suggest that, if one does not keep the commandants then that person is no longer in Christ.

We can be cut off from Christ

Rom 11:22-23 refers to God’s “kindness toward you provided that you remain in his kindness; if you do not, you too will be cut off.”

Jn 15:6 tells us that anyone who does not remain in [Christ] will be thrown out.
Jesus talks about those who are IN HIM. It does not get any clearer than this; these people are Christians (saved) and are then tossed out. One cannot be tossed out without first being “in”.

(Heb10:24-31) “Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant blood by which he was consecrated and insults the spirit of Grace.”

If one is saved by the blood of Jesus and later goes on to insult God by diminishing the power of Jesus’ blood, then the scripture says that punishment will be severe. You will become separated from God and his saving grace.

(2 Ptr 2:20-21) “It would be better if they have never known the truth.”

I do not think that is what it is talking about - that we would not sin. But, it is clear that we are dead to the law, those who have been justified…so, what is this meaning? What does it mean that the law has no more jurisdiction over us? .

I have posted this before now I would like your response

This is from [Christopher West’s Book Theology of the body for beginners pg 40]

“Most people look at Christian morality-especially sexual morality-as an oppressive list of rules to follow. How far this misunderstanding is from the living morality proclaimed by Christ! The Gospel doesn’t give us more rules to follow. The Gospel is meant to change our hearts so that we no longer need the rules(see cathichsm 1968) To the degree that we experience this change of heart we experience freedom from the law(Rom7;Gal 5) not freedom to break the law; freedom to fulfill it.”
"Here’s an example of what freedom from the law looks like: Do you have any desire to murder your best friend? This may seem like an odd question, but it actually demonstrate the point. Assuming you do not, then you don’t need that commandment. Thou shall not murder thy best friend. Because you have no desire to break it. To this extent you are free from the law. In other words, you don’t experience this law as an imposition because your heart conforms to it.

before original sin the human heart conformed to Gods. that is what Christ came back for to show us how to conform our will to his. and the Church is there to help

one last thing
When we allow Christ into our hearts we no longer need the law because we no longer desire to break them. What law do you still need? What teachings of the Church still feel like a burden or imposition to you? Perhaps the problem isn’t the law or the Church, but with your “hardness of heart” don’t throw away the law surrender your disordered desires to Christ and let him transform them.”

No.

All of the charges against the believer, and the debt that he owed, were nailed to the cross, and the charges and the debt against him were removed, at that time, when the believer himself was crucified with Christ, and forgiven all of his transgressions (Rom 6; Col 2:13, 14).

Then why does God still punish me for my wrong doing? Or am I not being punished for my sins because Jesus died for them? If so why does it seem Im suffering for the sins I do that he died for?