Decriminalization and/or legalization of illicit drugs in the United States?

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I knew a guy who was killed for the pot he was peddling. That’s 1!
Chances are he was killed because in a illegal transaction activity instead of buying it at regulated source. You’ll see a lot of people got shot for dealing alcohol during the prohibition, why? Because it was illegal. My great grandfather remembers the days how people were runnin shine and getting chased and shot for it. Police don’t take much chances and the runners were certainly doing something they should’ve, but it all happened because it was illegal.And with weed some people are doing the same, however today we don’t have near the problem of illegal alcohol dealing, although i know many people get shot, hurt and killed because somebody was on it. You must be specfic in which area you put a statistical number.
 
PP…you have the burden to show the existing order of things should be changed. Your failure to show specifics, even though I asked you the questions, shows an amatuer-like reasoning.
YOU dont seem to understand what a drug court does. If the person doesn’t stay off drugs, or fails a P test, and refuses to go to a rehab or other treatment…THEY GO TO JAIL.You want to keep drug courts…great…there is hope for you yet. Drug courts exist to force someone to go to treatment and get the record expunged instead of go to jail. Thats the only way to get people to treatment because addicts (physically or psychologically) dont want to give up drugs. Whats funny is to read your posts.
You think alcohol is “regulated” now? Ask any teen…he can get booz anytime. No sense to legalize pot…that would make it more available, and then see the system fail like it has for booz?/ No way. Dont make the same mistake. Too late to do anything about booz because of the availability and curtural acceptance—not so for pot. No one in their right mind would want to make the same mistake with pot…pot and booz are different. Booz is ingrained into society,part of the fabric of culture with legalization, advertising…Show me a person who takes pot for something other than getting high (often times meaning mellow)(not talking about medical.) I can drink a few beers without a buzz, because I like it.
So…cite me to something other than yourself.
 
So there’s no sin about drinking alcohol and being buzzed. Can’t be drunk though. Absoutely no sin in relaxation.

That’s a red herring and you know it. Your taking one word the wrong way and starting a whole new arguement. If you would try to argue correctly and we might get somewhere. I was speaking strictly from the stand point of the effects of legality. Not teens obtaining alcohol which the DEA has failed to slow down. Not only has the DEA failed to stop teen marijuana use, but it has been increasing of the last score. And the Netherlands in which it is more easy for teens to get a hold of marijuana have a lower rate of usage.
“Cannabis use among young people has also increased in most Western European countries and in the US. The rate of (cannabis) use among young people in the US is much higher than in the Netherlands, and Great Britain and Ireland also have relatively larger numbers of school students who use cannabis.”
Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), p. 7.
 
"The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to “drug tourists” and exacerbate Portugal’s drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

“Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success,” says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. “It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does.”

time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Check the Cato Institute:

cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080
 
PP…you have the burden to show the existing order of things should be changed. Your failure to show specifics, even though I asked you the questions, shows an amatuer-like reasoning.
YOU dont seem to understand what a drug court does. If the person doesn’t stay off drugs, or fails a P test, and refuses to go to a rehab or other treatment…THEY GO TO JAIL.You want to keep drug courts…great…there is hope for you yet. Drug courts exist to force someone to go to treatment and get the record expunged instead of go to jail. Thats the only way to get people to treatment because addicts (physically or psychologically) dont want to give up drugs. Whats funny is to read your posts.
You think alcohol is “regulated” now? Ask any teen…he can get booz anytime. No sense to legalize pot…that would make it more available, and then see the system fail like it has for booz?/ No way. Dont make the same mistake. Too late to do anything about booz because of the availability and curtural acceptance—not so for pot. No one in their right mind would want to make the same mistake with pot…pot and booz are different. Booz is ingrained into society,part of the fabric of culture with legalization, advertising…Show me a person who takes pot for something other than getting high (often times meaning mellow)(not talking about medical.) I can drink a few beers without a buzz, because I like it.
So…cite me to something other than yourself.
i take back everything i said. there is no need to legalize drugs. you can thrust your brain into reality bending goobledy goo land just by reading the catholic answers forum. here we have a former prosecutor who presumably passed the bar exam stating that alcohol is not regulated. his evidence: because teens can obtain it. In that case, you might want to alert the ATF for a name change.

Also, what was the “specific” question you asked me? Here’s what you actually said:

YOU show me a study that show the results you raise

what are the “results” that I allegedly raised? I believe i asked you to clarify a claim you made.

Here’s another example. In your post you just made another claim. Your claim:

“*Drug courts exist to force someone to go to treatment and get the record expunged instead of go to jail. Thats the only way to get people to treatment because addicts (physically or psychologically) dont want to give up drugs. *”

For that claim to be true, logically, no one could ever have given up drugs or alcohol without having been forced by the legal system. Can you show me some evidence that no one has ever gotten treatment without going to drug court?

not that you’ll believe me, but i do know how drug courts work. i think they are a step in the right direction, but still a poor substitute for further decriminalization.

As to who has the “burden of proof.” If you notice, I mentioned that i believe you do, but I also acknowledged that this is my “opinion.” That’s exactly what your belief is as well. There is no absolute law of argumentation regulating this. Furthermore, I’m not sure why you are repeating this in multiple posts. Clearly, by posting on here people are attempting to present the arguments in favor of legalization, thereby shouldering this “burden.”

Also, I’m sure you were earnest in your work as a prosecutor in trying to protect your constituents from the effects of crime. I believe that is noble work, and I’m sure your current beliefs are supported by many of the circumstances you witnessed first hand.
That said, when I argue for decriminalization I am doing so because I think it will reduce the harmful effects of drug commerce, eliminate unnecessarily punitive consequences of being caught possessing drugs, and allow for greater focus on putting away violent offenders.
 
Welllll…we agree to disagree…
Your legalization will make things worse. I have personal experience with drug courts. They are used primarily where users or sellers of small amounts have no record, are young, and agree to the conditions…like P test, community service, no crimes of any sort, rehab, 6 mo to 3 years probation, and mandatory attendance at AA or NA…AND…if they goof up, state pen…Its been a great success. I have talked to defendants who say it was the thing that kept them out of the pen…and working…so…legal availability of drugs take that experience away from them…there needs to be MORE drug courts, more rehabs, more rehab in state pens…and until a full court effort is made to defeat drug abuse even more than it has…your idea of making them legal and more available is a failure…IMHO…
Ive made my point here…cited PLENTY of great articles in my previous posts for Catholic parents to read. I feel good about it. Now----on to another topic. Adios
 
I agree the anti-legalization take, but I haven’t seen an adequate explanation for why it needs to remain an incarcerable offense, particularly in the case of personal use of marijuana, which seems no more harmful or sinful to me than drunkenness. Have you been inside a prison? I’m awful hesitant to put someone in such a horrifying situation over a blunt.
 
I do not know the ins and outs of the US legal system but I am deeply concerned that someone with many years as a prosecutor (as d97c claims) should APPEAR to equate decriminalisation with legalisation.

It is not legal to park in a "No Parking’ area, or to travel at speeds in excess of the speed limit, but these are not criminal offences. A benefit of decriminalising drugs is that it is easier to find, and help, drug users if they do not have the threat of being imprisoned for their habits.

The best way to stop the drug trade is for society to accept responsibility for people being drawn into drug use in the first place. We need to ask ourselves hard questions, such as what we (individually or as a society) have done which has resulted in people being even remotely interested in drugs and then do something about the problem we’ve created. Take away the desire and you’ve just removed the reason for the existence of drug traffickers. In the meantime, do what’s necessary to get access to as many drug users as possible and provide them with help in a totally non-judgemental way. Christ came to heal the sick. As Christians we have an obligation to be Christ’s hands, feet, and mouths.
 
Welllll…we agree to disagree…
Your legalization will make things worse. I have personal experience with drug courts. They are used primarily where users or sellers of small amounts have no record, are young, and agree to the conditions…like P test, community service, no crimes of any sort, rehab, 6 mo to 3 years probation, and mandatory attendance at AA or NA…AND…if they goof up, state pen…Its been a great success. I have talked to defendants who say it was the thing that kept them out of the pen…and working…so…legal availability of drugs take that experience away from them…there needs to be MORE drug courts, more rehabs, more rehab in state pens…and until a full court effort is made to defeat drug abuse even more than it has…your idea of making them legal and more available is a failure…IMHO…
Ive made my point here…cited PLENTY of great articles in my previous posts for Catholic parents to read. I feel good about it. Now----on to another topic. Adios
Your argument does not make sense. You say drug courts are good because it keeps them out of the state pen, yet if drugs are legal they would not end up in the pen for their drug use. When a drug is integrated into society, the users will become more “normal” because they are not in an underground world where only people who are willing to break the law exist. They are out in the open, surrounded by police (because remember because it is illegal current participants can not call the police) and surrounded in a controlled environment where sales go to people of legal age and to people who the society deems capable of handling the drug.
 
For any who have not read on the subject of typical decriminalization practices the typical format is:

*Many drugs if not most remain illegal to possess and distribute

Possession of small amounts of drugs results in a citation (like a traffic ticket). The ticket results in mandatory court appearances, mandatory drugs class (which ramp up after repeated offenses), and fines.

Possession of larger amounts or distribution is criminal offenses which result in straight to jail, mandatory court appearance, and criminal penalties. *

Some of the big benefits from the change are:

*Police spend only a few minutes with drug user issuing a citation. Same for courts which simply review the history of the drug user and increase his penalties. The work load for penalizing drug use is transferred to the user, who pays his own way through fees and fines. Drug users who fail to do the work do end up in jail for failure to comply with court orders (not drug use). *

So in summary today in most states a gram or a pound has the same criminal charge which is expensive to the tax payer and labor intense to the police and court. Under decriminalization the gram is a citation and the pound is an arrest.
 
Death row inmate, Jack Jones is rejected clemency by parole board
Ashley Blackstone 17 hrs ago
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The daughter of a Bald Knob woman who was brutally attacked and strangled says her mother’s killer deserves no second chances.

Lacey Phillips, who is now 25, told members of the Arkansas Board of Parole that Jack Jones deserves to die for the 1995 killing of her mother, 35-year-old Mary Phillips. Lacey was 11 at the time and was beaten and left for dead by Jones, but survived the attack.

**Jones faces a March 16 execution and is seeking clemency from the board. At a hearing last week at the maximum-security Varner prison, Jones apologized for what he did and said he was under the influence of drugs at the time of the murder. **
The parole board plans to release its recommendation Thursday. Gov. Mike Beebe has the final say on whether to approve the request.

(Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Make it legal for guys like this to use drugs in the open…thats the way to make life better…All you druggies like this article???
 
Death row inmate, Jack Jones is rejected clemency by parole board
Ashley Blackstone 17 hrs ago
Read Comments (10)Recommend Print Article Larger Smaller Share
The daughter of a Bald Knob woman who was brutally attacked and strangled says her mother’s killer deserves no second chances.

Lacey Phillips, who is now 25, told members of the Arkansas Board of Parole that Jack Jones deserves to die for the 1995 killing of her mother, 35-year-old Mary Phillips. Lacey was 11 at the time and was beaten and left for dead by Jones, but survived the attack.

**Jones faces a March 16 execution and is seeking clemency from the board. At a hearing last week at the maximum-security Varner prison, Jones apologized for what he did and said he was under the influence of drugs **at the time of the murder.
The parole board plans to release its recommendation Thursday. Gov. Mike Beebe has the final say on whether to approve the request.

(Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Make it legal for guys like this to use drugs in the open…thats the way to make life better…All you druggies like this article???
That is prescription drugs right, because the other drugs were illegal in Arkansas then. Or did you mean the proper penalty for drugs is capital punishment?
 
That is prescription drugs right, because the other drugs were illegal in Arkansas then. Or did you mean the proper penalty for drugs is capital punishment?
Or did he mean that no one drunk ever committed murder?
 
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