G
Godfollower
Guest
What are you talking about? I can’t find any evidence of this anywhere. If he were wanted by the police, the Vatican would order him back to Boston. What are your sources?
- Status
A
Ailina
Guest
I was sad and angry when I heard this on the news. The bishop is a leader of his parish. He knows better since he was involved in resolving the abuse scandals in the Maritimes. He has struck a huge blow against the church because he has been revealed as a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Child porn is sick and abusive, let’s make no bones about it. Sure, it goes on everywhere (and always has), but since this bishop in particular was involved in resolving the sex scandals, it is like a bomb going off. He might as well work for the Other Side, of you get my meaning. A lot of people have probably turned away from the church because of this.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
A wise old priest once said “The road to hell is paved with many mitres.”
K
kage_ar
Guest
Post evidence of these warrants and extradition requests or retract.
S
Serap
Guest
I would have done the same. You can never be too careful. It’s a shame that we have to even do this isn’t it…You always have to follow your gut. Because I was molested (at home), I now have an excellent radar for detecting “Dirk Diddlers”; it’s a gift I was given out of my suffering.
I recently got some eebie geebies from a priest that stood in for our pastor about a month ago. He came across as though he loved children, but I just got those icky vibes from him. You have to listen to that inner voice.
What is a real shame is that these priests that we are careful of could be truly a lover of children and have good intentions.
Boy, it must be soooo hard to be a priest today!!! I will pray for priests when I finish this post
S
Serap
Guest
Yeah, I find this hard to believe given how strict Pope B. is with this stuff.
I can’t find any evidence of this either when I searched the web…hmmmm…
It reminds me of “Our Lady of Akita” where she said that bishops would be against bishops and that Satan would penetrate our church…boy she wasn’t kiddin’ around!!!
D
Departed_Light
Guest
I wish to post a retraction to freely and openly admit my error in saying that Boston was seeking Cardinal Law today. I was completely mistaken. Here is the time line I was going by and why I came to my erroneous conclusions:
Cardinal B. Law of Boston to face grand jury. multiline.com.au/~johnm/ethics/more.htm
Cardinal Law Resigns Over Sex Abuse Scandal (many news articles this is just one from Boston) thebostonchannel.com/news/1836451/detail.html
Accused priests finding refuge - Catholic Church leaders offer protection in Vatican’s shadow spokesmanreview.com/sections/diocese/?ID=26222
But then I discovered this as the explanation of why Cardinal Law was not brought up on charges:
Why Isn’t Boston’s Cardinal Law in Jail? slate.com/id/2062309/
But Why Isn’t Bernard Law in Jail? (Part 2) slate.com/id/2075831/
Cardinal Law – 5 years later deacbench.blogspot.com/2008/01/cardinal-law-five-years-later.html
Given this more accurate data my original question still stands.
Cardinal B. Law of Boston to face grand jury. multiline.com.au/~johnm/ethics/more.htm
Cardinal Law Resigns Over Sex Abuse Scandal (many news articles this is just one from Boston) thebostonchannel.com/news/1836451/detail.html
Accused priests finding refuge - Catholic Church leaders offer protection in Vatican’s shadow spokesmanreview.com/sections/diocese/?ID=26222
But then I discovered this as the explanation of why Cardinal Law was not brought up on charges:
Why Isn’t Boston’s Cardinal Law in Jail? slate.com/id/2062309/
But Why Isn’t Bernard Law in Jail? (Part 2) slate.com/id/2075831/
Cardinal Law – 5 years later deacbench.blogspot.com/2008/01/cardinal-law-five-years-later.html
Given this more accurate data my original question still stands.
K
kage_ar
Guest
Departed Light -
Thank you.
Prayers that the light will return to you
Thank you.
Prayers that the light will return to you
G
Godfollower
Guest
As your sources point out, Cardinal Law isn’t in jail because he didn’t violate the criminal law. That’s an issue for the legislature of Massachusetts going forward (you can’t criminalize something after it’s already happened).
If I recall correctly, your original question was something to the effect of “How can the Catholic Church be considered authoritative if its leaders act improperly (transferring abusers from parish to parish, etc.)?” The answer lies in Scripture, in that properly given authority is to be obeyed, even if the person exercising that authority is hypocritical:
Matthew 23:1-5.
I’m sure you’ll agree with me that the current crop of Catholic Church leaders are properly teaching quite a few things – Jesus is Lord, the Godhead is three Persons in one God, Jesus was born of the virgin Mary for the salvation of the world, the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, Jesus never sinned, His Crucifixion and Resurrection saved humanity, etc. – despite whatever personal failings the individual leaders might exhibit. So, clearly, it’s possible to teach theology correctly notwithstanding personal sin.
The Holy Spirit prevents the Catholic Church from misleading its followers as to faith and morals. He does not prevent individual leaders in the Church from committing personal sin. We saw this in the Gospel, when Jesus was arrested and most of His followers fled; even Peter denied Him three times that night. Indeed, Peter even had to be corrected (later) about his conduct by Paul, because Peter withdrew from Gentile Christians at meals out of fear of criticism by Jewish Christians. But Peter never taught that Christians needed to be circumcised. The Apostles never misled their flock about Jesus, despite any personal failings. That’s because the Holy Spirit prevents it.
D
Departed_Light
Guest
It’s not how sinful men lead members of Christ’s flock. It’s a given that we are all sinners and we are imperfect in our actions.
My question goes to what I see in Catholics who have deified the magisterium. Non-Catholic Christians leave it open than even though the pastor or teacher or leader is teaching truth – God is One, revealed in Trinity as an example – that the person teaching this truth is fallible.
The Catholic believes the body teaching the truth is infallible, not the truth itself.
That’s the difference.
When we elevate infallibly to any body other than to God it makes a god out of that body. It makes people put their faith in something other than God; which is idolatry.
The whole sexual abuse scandal is just horrible for everyone involved and for those that refuse to come to Christ due to this stumbling block. I know many Catholics believe this too.
If the Church is looking to make thing different in order to prevent this sort of situation from occurring again – how can it allow the perpetrators involved to remain as part of the infallible teaching office of the Church? This is even more scandal, and in my very fallible eyes most unwise.
Look at this from the outside.
Cardinal Law hides priests that have sexually abused members of their flocks for decades. It gets red hot in the press. Law resigns and then gets called to the Vatican by then Pope John Paul II. JPII dies and Law is on the board to elect the next pope. (Is the election of a pope considered a teaching on faith and as such an infallible selection?) Pope Benedict XVI is elected and Law continues his place in the Vatican as part of that Teaching Office. WTF?!!
And Catholic everywhere are astonished when non-Catholic level the charge of corruption in the Church.
Catholics have a solid grasp of the temporal punishment for sins, even if and when these sins have been repented of, confessed, and penance done. Wouldn’t the most basic temporal punishment for Law be to not be part of the official infallible teaching office of the Church?
I know that this thread is about Bishop Lahey and child porn charges, but the situation with Law is the spot light. If this is the way the Church handles these situations, not much has changed. The Church still just moves its problematic leaders around instead of dealing with it head on. These actions go to protect the perpetrators of these scandals and further perpetuate the scandal.
And what of forgiveness? Yes the Church should offer it just as Christ offers it to all who repent. Forgiveness of wrongs does not preclude the temporal punishment for those actions. At a minimum, being ousted from the inner circle of the infallible teaching office would seem appropriate and might even go to actually address the scandal itself.
S
Serap
Guest
I read somewhere that Bishops and Archbishops truly believed that sexual abusers could be made better with some counselling.
Back in the 70’s and up to the 80’s, it was believed that you could rehabilitate sexual abusers. These sexual predator priests would go off for a few weeks at a retreat designed to rehabilitate them and come back to another parish.
It is not until recently, that we as a society (including the Catholic church) are realizing that sexual predators cannot be rehabilitated and they need to be kept away from children and teenagers.
The Catholic church in the last decade or so, has taken a very different stance against child predators. Bishops and Archbishops now know better. It has been a learning experience for everyone, including schools, community clubs (Boy Scouts), etc.
It’s not just the Catholic church that is guilty of this. At the time, the Catholic church felt that they were doing what was best and now are realizing their mistakes. It doesn’t make any sense to society today b/c we all realize that sexual predators don’t really change, but 20 years ago, it was still a different story.
I’m sure that many of these bishops still go to bed feeling terrible for what they were a part of, but they can’t change the past and they have been advised to move on and look to the future instead of the past that they cannot change.
We need to give the Catholic church a break and realize that today’s scientific findings are different than they were when the scandal was taking place.
Back in the 70’s and up to the 80’s, it was believed that you could rehabilitate sexual abusers. These sexual predator priests would go off for a few weeks at a retreat designed to rehabilitate them and come back to another parish.
It is not until recently, that we as a society (including the Catholic church) are realizing that sexual predators cannot be rehabilitated and they need to be kept away from children and teenagers.
The Catholic church in the last decade or so, has taken a very different stance against child predators. Bishops and Archbishops now know better. It has been a learning experience for everyone, including schools, community clubs (Boy Scouts), etc.
It’s not just the Catholic church that is guilty of this. At the time, the Catholic church felt that they were doing what was best and now are realizing their mistakes. It doesn’t make any sense to society today b/c we all realize that sexual predators don’t really change, but 20 years ago, it was still a different story.
I’m sure that many of these bishops still go to bed feeling terrible for what they were a part of, but they can’t change the past and they have been advised to move on and look to the future instead of the past that they cannot change.
We need to give the Catholic church a break and realize that today’s scientific findings are different than they were when the scandal was taking place.
D
dmfette
Guest
…peace be with you…really…
you write:
"The Catholic believes the body teaching the truth is infallible, not the truth itself.
…this is incorrect…if Spirit may move you, please seek and find what is written in church teachings re: Truth…if similarly moved, perhaps you can/will correct your post about catholic belief is in this regard…
…you question in re: idolatry is interesting particularly in the light of the example you give in Christian teaching (a product of catholic teaching that has undergone several different theological attacks), the Trinity - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit…your presumptions underlined above in light of scripture and catholic teaching are in error…true, many people, catholic and non-catholic, err due to ignorance and/or lack of graces such as obedience, humility, and poverty…in the light of Truth and by their fruits you can know/see them worshipping themselves, money/wealth, piety that is false, ideas of politic or false religion/theology, persons of fame, sex, etc…in doing so they are ensalved…few, so enslaved, stop to consider this may be so - the spirit of deception and/or self-deception is allowed to hold them from the Truth because they do not love the Truth with all their being…
…to believe the church is holy because of its institution by Christ does not make the church as an institution an “idol” nor does it make Chirst an instrument in the promotion of idolotry…to honor that holiness in faith/practice is no more idolotry than would be a child’s obedience to his/her father and mother…the tassle that was touched in hope and faith in the healing the hemorrhaging woman was no more an idol than the things that are sanctified through Christ/Holy Spirit and His church - including its teachings…
…it is because of the institution of the church and the actions of the Holy Spirit through it that we even have the words of scripture that state, “…only God is good…” and the theology of the Trinity…think deeply of what this means and of the Person who is recorded as having made the statement…
…i would suggest you might consider seeking and finding both in yourself and in the teachings, traditions, and history of the catholic church what Truth you will…i would also suggest that you do not characterize catholic belief until you educate yourself about it…seek and you shall find…
…i leave you with the words of st. john of the cross:
“O Lord, my God, who will seek You with simple and pure love, and not find that You are all one can desire, for You show Yourself first and go out to meet those who seek You?”
…peace—>mark
S
Serap
Guest
Let’s stay on topic guys and not get into the whole debate against the Catholic Church That’s another topic…
That’s another topic…
D
Departed_Light
Guest
OK, sorry. I think I was the guy that lead us off on a tangent.Let’s stay on topic guys and not get into the whole debate against the Catholic Church
T
TheRiver
Guest
What’s next? The Pope having child pornography on his computer?
Another one of the reason’s I just simply stopped going to church and what not, these are the leaders we are meant to somehow follow, and if they can’t even control themselves, they preach and expect the younger generations to be able to.
Hypocrisy at its finest. There were only a few good bishops and popes in the history of the church anyways, and most of the great non-clergy individuals died young, like pier georgio frassati or gemma galgani.
Another one of the reason’s I just simply stopped going to church and what not, these are the leaders we are meant to somehow follow, and if they can’t even control themselves, they preach and expect the younger generations to be able to.
Hypocrisy at its finest. There were only a few good bishops and popes in the history of the church anyways, and most of the great non-clergy individuals died young, like pier georgio frassati or gemma galgani.
S
Serap
Guest
It’s not fair of you to paint the entire Catholic clergy with the same brush. Like any large organization, you will have corruption. More than 90% of the Catholic clergy are holy and wonderful people and you choose to turn your back on the entire church because of the 5-7% or so that have created corruption?
I hope you haven’t turned your heart away from God because of this. I think that this is a very sad by-product of a handful of clergy that have ruined it for everyone it seems.
Jesus was betrayed by one of his close apostles. Jesus was betrayed! If the other apostles had lost their faith because of Judas, that would have been very sad too.
I respect your view, but please reconsider opening you heart to Jesus and ask Him to help you come back despite the fact that there are a handful of evil or sick human beings in the Catholic clergy.
I have met so many wonderful priests; so many priests that genuinely love me and my family. I have met so many beautiful priests that have helped me when I needed it most; have listened to my Confessions and given me excellent advice; have just smiled at me or my daughter during mass and have made a difference in my day.
I have also met some “not so good” priests too, but my experience has been that the vast majority of priests that I’ve met have been wonderful kind men and excellent examples of Christ. Don’t let a few sick and disgusting men turn you away; that’s not what Jesus wants. You are loved by Jesus and Jesus is deeply saddened by people like you who are good people, but are being “put off” by the disgusting behaviour of a few.
I will pray for you that you can see the big picture and come back with your whole heart just as I did only over a year ago. God bless you.
- Status