Defending extraordinary occurences

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damooster

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(I’m sorry if this is in the wrong forum)

I’m in the RCIA and have been getting bombarded with “questions.” These “questions” are actually attempts to get me to “realize” that my conversion to Catholicism is the wrong choice.

Anyways, yesterday at work, one of my co-workers (again) started questioning my faith by asking me if I actually believe in stigmata and other extraordinary occurences like the Tilma. I told him that I did and he just flipped his hand at me, as if he were dismissing me (he’s actually mad at me because he wants me to become a Freemason, which I thought about doing before I started RCIA but realized that the Church does not allow it). His reasoning was that the Catholic Church would accept any of these occurences to strengthen their membership numbers, but I argued that the Church would stand to lose a lot if one of these occurences were debunked or disproven.

That got me thinking, though: how much investigation goes in to these occurences? What is the process? I’ve been watching EWTN and they have been showing the story of Mary appearing to St. Juan Diego. What kind of investigations go into proving that someone didn’t just paint a picture of Mary on the Tilma, or that it hasn’t decayed at all, or that it really hung, unprotected, for as long as it did? What about other occurences like incorruptibles?

Thanks in advance for your answers. I need all the help I can get “battling” everyone who feels the need to blast me and my conversion. My co-workers call me a hypocrite and tell me how wrong I am for wanting to become Catholic. I haven’t even told my father yet because I know he will not approve.

Anyways, I ramble…
 
a short answer as to how much time the Church spends investigating these occurances A LOT…
i do know that the cannoization process involves a very deep and long investigation…i know there have been reports of so called “miracles” which the Church has denied being authentic,after checking them out…i would be as bold to say that most likely 1 in every 30 “miraclous” events have been declared bogus by the Church…
the dismissive attitude of your co-workers show how poisoned they are by the free masonary.
 
damooster said:
(I’m sorry if this is in the wrong forum)

I’m in the RCIA and have been getting bombarded with “questions.” These “questions” are actually attempts to get me to “realize” that my conversion to Catholicism is the wrong choice.

Anyways, yesterday at work, one of my co-workers (again) started questioning my faith by asking me if I actually believe in stigmata and other extraordinary occurences like the Tilma. I told him that I did and he just flipped his hand at me, as if he were dismissing me (he’s actually mad at me because he wants me to become a Freemason, which I thought about doing before I started RCIA but realized that the Church does not allow it). His reasoning was that the Catholic Church would accept any of these occurences to strengthen their membership numbers, but I argued that the Church would stand to lose a lot if one of these occurences were debunked or disproven.

That got me thinking, though: how much investigation goes in to these occurences? What is the process? I’ve been watching EWTN and they have been showing the story of Mary appearing to St. Juan Diego. What kind of investigations go into proving that someone didn’t just paint a picture of Mary on the Tilma, or that it hasn’t decayed at all, or that it really hung, unprotected, for as long as it did? What about other occurences like incorruptibles?

Thanks in advance for your answers. I need all the help I can get “battling” everyone who feels the need to blast me and my conversion. My co-workers call me a hypocrite and tell me how wrong I am for wanting to become Catholic. I haven’t even told my father yet because I know he will not approve.

Anyways, I ramble…
Click to expand...
The answer lies in not if you beleive that this or that specific “extraordinary occurence” happened… But if you believe that God is capable of allowing them to happen?
 
Please don’t let these questions distract. What really matter in your life is your relationship with God and with your fellow Catholics, your understanding and living the gospel, your furture sharinging in the Sacraments These are the basic truths and focus…the rest are not essential to your living of the Catholic faith.
 
The Church doesn’t say that you have to believe in these miracles.
 
I personally don’t let that stuff stop me. I am still going to be a catholic, even though the OLG is specious at best.
Stigmata, is not a matter for me to determine. I believe in the supernatural, and leave that matter to God and that person.
I don’t want to say it can not be.
As the church usually reserves strong comments against things that attack Christ, and that is generally the focus of the saying no to something. The Church is much more hesitant to say yes to something. This is a beautiful thing really. 🙂
Dogma is only promulgated when needed.
😉
I know everyone is going to tell me about how “Juan Diego” is a cannonized saint.
But, you have to have existed to be cannonized you know.
Well, I guess there are a few others that may not have, but
Either way, I submit to the church on it, even though its harder to believe in than any other thing I can think of.
 
damooster said:
(I’m sorry if this is in the wrong forum)

I’m in the RCIA and have been getting bombarded with “questions.” These “questions” are actually attempts to get me to “realize” that my conversion to Catholicism is the wrong choice.

Anyways, yesterday at work, one of my co-workers (again) started questioning my faith by asking me if I actually believe in stigmata and other extraordinary occurences like the Tilma. I told him that I did and he just flipped his hand at me, as if he were dismissing me (he’s actually mad at me because he wants me to become a Freemason, which I thought about doing before I started RCIA but realized that the Church does not allow it). His reasoning was that the Catholic Church would accept any of these occurences to strengthen their membership numbers, but I argued that the Church would stand to lose a lot if one of these occurences were debunked or disproven.

That got me thinking, though: how much investigation goes in to these occurences? What is the process? I’ve been watching EWTN and they have been showing the story of Mary appearing to St. Juan Diego. What kind of investigations go into proving that someone didn’t just paint a picture of Mary on the Tilma, or that it hasn’t decayed at all, or that it really hung, unprotected, for as long as it did? What about other occurences like incorruptibles?

Thanks in advance for your answers. I need all the help I can get “battling” everyone who feels the need to blast me and my conversion. My co-workers call me a hypocrite and tell me how wrong I am for wanting to become Catholic. I haven’t even told my father yet because I know he will not approve.

Anyways, I ramble…
Click to expand...
What is the Tilma?
 
Was the tilma the mantle of OLG in which St. Juan Diego carried the roses and which, when he unwrapped it, had the impression on it of OL’s face?
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
The answer lies in not if you beleive that this or that specific “extraordinary occurence” happened… But if you believe that God is capable of allowing them to happen?
Click to expand...
Dear Br.Rich SFO

Would it be appropriate for you to expand your good answer to explaining the difference between public and private revelation? The Catechism reference is Christ Jesus-- “Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation” # 65-67 Another source, if you follow links, is www.therealpresence.org.

Blessings,
grannymh
 
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