M
mlldrl
Guest
That’s akin to making a statement in 1776 that England should return to its American roots. If it’s not a joke you’re either ignorant of history or…well never mind.
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MrS
Guest
Or perhaps the illegal alien assuming new “rights” and criteria, and expecting the citizens to conform and return to the illegal’s roots.That’s akin to making a statement in 1776 that England should return to its American roots. If it’s not a joke you’re either ignorant of history or…well never mind.
M
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I
inthecloud
Guest
The Jews of the Pharisees. Why Protestant of the Calvinistic tradition keep indetifiying the “jews” with the Pharisees. If the Pharisees were right about the canon, why they were wrong about Jesus?Although the Apocrypha was produced by Jews, they were not accepted by the Jewish people as a part of the official Hebrew Canon. The Jews Of The Intertestamental period seem, in fact, to have been aware of the absence of the spiritual gift which alone qualified men to write sacred Scripture.
The Intertestamentarian period is a Calvinistic invention. There was no Intertestamentan period.The Jews Of The Intertestamental period seem, in fact, to have been aware of the absence of the spiritual gift which alone qualified men to write sacred Scripture.
Either you have the Pharisees position that the canon is closed just before anything remotely Christian was written and the NT is a then a fake.(But cheating of course. Daniel is not older that Maccabees in reality as the DSS have proven. And Ester is as doubtfull historically as Judith seen in a objetive light.) Or the traditional Apostoloc Christian position. A open canon of Revealed Scripture that do not stops until Jesus and the Apostles.
The Intertesamentary fallacy is trying to fit a Pharisee square into a Christian circle. Why suddently God stop talking? Why when He decided to talk suddently He changed His mind and choosed to speak in other languages that Hebrew, when the Pharisees had made clear that YHWH only speaks Hebrew?
The Jews do pray for the dead. Then and now.a) Prayers and offerings for the dead, (2 Macc 12:41-45, Baruch 3:4)
And Esther condones genocide and Genesis pimping your wife. Seen in that light.) Judith’s language and conduct are characterized by double-dealing and falsehood being met with God’s approval, and with God’s assistance. (Judith 9:10, 13).
V
veritashunter
Guest
Actually, if you read the entire section of scripture you will see that David is mourning the death of Abner as are all the people after seeing David’s example (which is pleasing to them). David goes so far as to order others to mourn over Abner wearing sackcloth and ash.You haven’t helped at all. You have definitely misquoted Scripture here. I asked for a Scripture reference that proved we are to pray for the dead. You gave this:
How does this tell us to pray for the dead? It has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
David prayed and preached for justice to be served to Abner by seeking out the murderer of Abner. But Abner was dead. How does justice serve a dead man…especially in the context of guilt on earth for the act of Abner’s murder…the very guilt from which David was distancing himself by his example.
I am sorry if I have somehow offended you as it is obvious from the seemingly angry reaction in your writing style that you are somewhat defensive when considering such points.
I am unaware of what your distinct understanding is regarding fasting…especially in the context of Judaism.
But fasting is not merely to deprive oneself of a material good (thing) on earth. Fasting (especially within Judaic tradition) is always integrated with prayer just as did Jesus in the wilderness for 40 days (one NT example). It is a living sacrifice of oneself in communion with God through prayer. It is in this context that I was speaking.
Also, in 2 TM 1:16-18 Paul prays for Onesiphorus and for God to grant mercy upon the judgment of his soul after his death. This is a clear example of the Teacher of the Nations (St. Paul) praying for the dead and offering himself as an example to others in his very epistle.
The premise of your original email was “where is it in the Protestant bible?” (more or less). I have done so.
My question to you is where is it prohibited in the Protestant bible? Because if that is the logic and contention of the debate we must then outlaw many things in the modern day if they are not specifically called out as permissible actions in Sacred Scripture.
For instance, (even though the procedure technology did not yet exist) giving blood for a tranfusion to someone in dire need or allowing the donation of one’s organs for transplantation after one’s death to someone who is dying is not spoken of as being permitted in Sacred Scripture. One could even argue that it might deviate from the spirit of the Mosaic Law, if not its very statute. It would likely be seen as an unclean/impure act and even bodily mutilation.
I pray for peace upon you and into your heart.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant
V
veritashunter
Guest
To Protestant 101:
As to the criticism of Tobit and the methods for cure found within it…I can see that use of inanimate objects/materials to heal people might seem foreign to our logic. So, let us look to the “Protestant Canon” for some comparitions.
Jesus uses spit and mud spread to heal…definitely would be viewed as an act of uncleanliness and hygienic disobedience under The Law.
The woman with the hemorrage was cured by touching the garment of Christ (an inanimate object). The same can be said of cures by Peter and Paul in the Acts of the Apostles.
In the Old Testament those bitten by Seraphs (desert vipers) died…so God instructed that a bronze serpent be constructed and set of a wooden staff/pole and that those bitten were to go to the statue and look upon it so that they might be cured. Another cure from an inanimate source of grace.
The bible says that the waters of the pool of Silome were said to heal…etc., etc., etc. This is not an uncommon sort of happening in Sacred Scripture.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant
As to the criticism of Tobit and the methods for cure found within it…I can see that use of inanimate objects/materials to heal people might seem foreign to our logic. So, let us look to the “Protestant Canon” for some comparitions.
Jesus uses spit and mud spread to heal…definitely would be viewed as an act of uncleanliness and hygienic disobedience under The Law.
The woman with the hemorrage was cured by touching the garment of Christ (an inanimate object). The same can be said of cures by Peter and Paul in the Acts of the Apostles.
In the Old Testament those bitten by Seraphs (desert vipers) died…so God instructed that a bronze serpent be constructed and set of a wooden staff/pole and that those bitten were to go to the statue and look upon it so that they might be cured. Another cure from an inanimate source of grace.
The bible says that the waters of the pool of Silome were said to heal…etc., etc., etc. This is not an uncommon sort of happening in Sacred Scripture.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant
V
veritashunter
Guest
**Originally posted by Protestant101:
c) Judith’s language and conduct are characterized by double-dealing and falsehood being met with God’s approval, and with God’s assistance. (Judith 9:10, 13).**
Let us again review some examples of the “Protestant Canon”. Pay particular attention to Jacob deceiving Laban to get the best sheep in his flock and Jacobs wife Rachel (Laban’s daughter) stealing his “idols” and hiding them by lying about her receiving her menstruation after stealing them. They were idols of pagan gods which contradicted the First Commandment of God.
**GN 20 **
Abraham deceives Ambimelech, King of Gerar. Abraham claims that Sarah was not his wife, but his sister instead. Ambimelech, therefore, takes Sarah as his concubine. But, before Ambimelech can consumate the relationship with Sarah God comes to him and warns him against it. God reveals the true nature of the situation to him and saves him from committing sin with a married woman. This was all brought about by the deception of Abraham’s lie.
GN 26
Isaac also deceives Ambimelech, King of Gerar just as his father did in the past. Isaac claims that Rebekah was not his wife, but his sister instead. In this instance Ambimelech stumbled upon Isaac and Rebekah together and realized that he had again been deceived. He was angered that Isaac had placed the men of his kingdom in jeopardy of sin because of the deception. This was all brought into being by the deception of Isaac’s lie. (Did you ever wonder where the term “Like father like son” came from?)
GN 27
Jacob deceives his father (Isaac), at the bequest and urging of his mother.
GN 27:35“But he (Isaac) said, ‘Your brother came deceitfully and took your blessing.’ “
GN 29:13-30Jacob is deceived by Laban, Father of Leah and Rachel. Laban forced Isaac to indenture himself for 7 years in order to marry Rachel. But when the time came to marry Rachel he told Isaac that the custom of his tribe required him to marry Leah first. So, Jacob was forced to remain as the servant of Laban for an additional 7 years. The total indenturing of Jacob was 14 years rather than the 7 agreed to by his word with Laban.
GN 30:25-43
Jacob bargained with Laban to only take the striped or otherwise marked sheep of Laban’s flock as payment for his tending them. Since the marked sheep, when bred, furthered that color trait more times than not the size Jacob’s flock increased quickly. This continuously decreased the size and quality of Laban’s flock.
**GN 31 **
This scripture describes how the sons of Laban realized the source and vast nature of Isaac’s new found wealth. Thus, in GN 31:1 “Jacob heard that Laban’s sons were saying ‘Jacob has taken everything our father owned and has gained all this wealth from what belonged to our father.’ Therefore, Jacob had to flee to his homeland with his family and his flocks. Since the source Jacob’s wealth was Laban, his sons should have benefited from the property of Laban rather than Jacob. This is the reason for the anger of the sons of Laban.
GN 31:20-21
“Rachel stole her father’s household gods (gold figurine idols). Moreover, Jacob deceived Laban, the Aramean, by not telling him he was running away. So, he fled with all he had, and crossing the river, he headed for the hill country of Gilead.”
**GN 31:34-35 **
Rachel conceals her theft and lies to her father by sitting on what she has stolen. To prevent her father from searching where she sits (to conceal the stolen idols) she tells her father that she cannot rise to greet him because she has entered her menstrual period.
**2 SM 3:13-16 **
“Good” said David “I will make an agreement with you. But I demand one thing of you: Do not come into my presence unless you bring Michal, daughter of Saul when you come to see me.” Then David sent messengers to Ish-Boseth, son of Saul, demanding “Give me my wife Michal, whom I betrothed to myself for the price of a hundred Phillistine foreskins.”
“So, Ish-Bosheth gave orders and had her taken away from her husband, Paltiel, son of Laish. Her husband, however, went with her, weeping behind her all the way to Bahurim. Then Abner said to him, ‘Go back home!’ So he went back.” (As a result, David stole the wife of another man and committed adultery against him.)
2 SM 6:20-23As a result of the terms of her confinement in within the house of David, Michal rejected David until her death and provided him with no children.
2 SM 11:1-17
David commits adultery with Bathsheba, making her pregnant, plots her husband’s death (Uriah), then arranges Uriah’s murder on the battlefield.
2 SM 12:7-14Nathan rebukes David. Nathan confirms the stealing of wives, the murder of Uriah, adultery, and other sins in his condemnation of David. As punishment God takes the life of David’s son. This was foretold by Nathan 7 days earlier as it was revealed to him by God.
2 SM 13:1-39Amnon rapes his half-sister, Tamar. Then Absalom, brother of Tamar, murders Amnon. Amnon, Tamar, and Absalom are all siblings.
1 KGS 1 & 2David swears Solomon to preserve the life of Adonijah. Then, after Solomon is enthroned, he breaks his word and has Adonijah murdered. In fact, until chapter 3 of First Kings Solomon regularly uses murder as a tool to eliminate any remnants of the House of Saul; whether just or unjust.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant
c) Judith’s language and conduct are characterized by double-dealing and falsehood being met with God’s approval, and with God’s assistance. (Judith 9:10, 13).**
Let us again review some examples of the “Protestant Canon”. Pay particular attention to Jacob deceiving Laban to get the best sheep in his flock and Jacobs wife Rachel (Laban’s daughter) stealing his “idols” and hiding them by lying about her receiving her menstruation after stealing them. They were idols of pagan gods which contradicted the First Commandment of God.
**GN 20 **
Abraham deceives Ambimelech, King of Gerar. Abraham claims that Sarah was not his wife, but his sister instead. Ambimelech, therefore, takes Sarah as his concubine. But, before Ambimelech can consumate the relationship with Sarah God comes to him and warns him against it. God reveals the true nature of the situation to him and saves him from committing sin with a married woman. This was all brought about by the deception of Abraham’s lie.
GN 26
Isaac also deceives Ambimelech, King of Gerar just as his father did in the past. Isaac claims that Rebekah was not his wife, but his sister instead. In this instance Ambimelech stumbled upon Isaac and Rebekah together and realized that he had again been deceived. He was angered that Isaac had placed the men of his kingdom in jeopardy of sin because of the deception. This was all brought into being by the deception of Isaac’s lie. (Did you ever wonder where the term “Like father like son” came from?)
GN 27
Jacob deceives his father (Isaac), at the bequest and urging of his mother.
GN 27:35“But he (Isaac) said, ‘Your brother came deceitfully and took your blessing.’ “
GN 29:13-30Jacob is deceived by Laban, Father of Leah and Rachel. Laban forced Isaac to indenture himself for 7 years in order to marry Rachel. But when the time came to marry Rachel he told Isaac that the custom of his tribe required him to marry Leah first. So, Jacob was forced to remain as the servant of Laban for an additional 7 years. The total indenturing of Jacob was 14 years rather than the 7 agreed to by his word with Laban.
GN 30:25-43
Jacob bargained with Laban to only take the striped or otherwise marked sheep of Laban’s flock as payment for his tending them. Since the marked sheep, when bred, furthered that color trait more times than not the size Jacob’s flock increased quickly. This continuously decreased the size and quality of Laban’s flock.
**GN 31 **
This scripture describes how the sons of Laban realized the source and vast nature of Isaac’s new found wealth. Thus, in GN 31:1 “Jacob heard that Laban’s sons were saying ‘Jacob has taken everything our father owned and has gained all this wealth from what belonged to our father.’ Therefore, Jacob had to flee to his homeland with his family and his flocks. Since the source Jacob’s wealth was Laban, his sons should have benefited from the property of Laban rather than Jacob. This is the reason for the anger of the sons of Laban.
GN 31:20-21
“Rachel stole her father’s household gods (gold figurine idols). Moreover, Jacob deceived Laban, the Aramean, by not telling him he was running away. So, he fled with all he had, and crossing the river, he headed for the hill country of Gilead.”
**GN 31:34-35 **
Rachel conceals her theft and lies to her father by sitting on what she has stolen. To prevent her father from searching where she sits (to conceal the stolen idols) she tells her father that she cannot rise to greet him because she has entered her menstrual period.
**2 SM 3:13-16 **
“Good” said David “I will make an agreement with you. But I demand one thing of you: Do not come into my presence unless you bring Michal, daughter of Saul when you come to see me.” Then David sent messengers to Ish-Boseth, son of Saul, demanding “Give me my wife Michal, whom I betrothed to myself for the price of a hundred Phillistine foreskins.”
“So, Ish-Bosheth gave orders and had her taken away from her husband, Paltiel, son of Laish. Her husband, however, went with her, weeping behind her all the way to Bahurim. Then Abner said to him, ‘Go back home!’ So he went back.” (As a result, David stole the wife of another man and committed adultery against him.)
2 SM 6:20-23As a result of the terms of her confinement in within the house of David, Michal rejected David until her death and provided him with no children.
2 SM 11:1-17
David commits adultery with Bathsheba, making her pregnant, plots her husband’s death (Uriah), then arranges Uriah’s murder on the battlefield.
2 SM 12:7-14Nathan rebukes David. Nathan confirms the stealing of wives, the murder of Uriah, adultery, and other sins in his condemnation of David. As punishment God takes the life of David’s son. This was foretold by Nathan 7 days earlier as it was revealed to him by God.
2 SM 13:1-39Amnon rapes his half-sister, Tamar. Then Absalom, brother of Tamar, murders Amnon. Amnon, Tamar, and Absalom are all siblings.
1 KGS 1 & 2David swears Solomon to preserve the life of Adonijah. Then, after Solomon is enthroned, he breaks his word and has Adonijah murdered. In fact, until chapter 3 of First Kings Solomon regularly uses murder as a tool to eliminate any remnants of the House of Saul; whether just or unjust.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant
V
veritashunter
Guest
**Originally posted by Protestant101:
d) The Wisdom Of Solomon teaches the theories of Plato, saying that a person’s body is a mere hindrance to the soul. (WS 9:15). It also borrow’s Plato’s doctrine of the pre-existence of souls. (WS 8:19-20).**
More from the “Protestant Canon”:
**MT 26:41 **
“the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”
Actually, Wisdom does not teach that the body is nothing more than a hindrance to the soul, but rather that it is a (temporal) constraint to the soul on earth that may be the means to tempt one toward sin through the desires and material needs of the body.
That is also what St. Paul teaches as well too many times in Sacred Scripture to list.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant
d) The Wisdom Of Solomon teaches the theories of Plato, saying that a person’s body is a mere hindrance to the soul. (WS 9:15). It also borrow’s Plato’s doctrine of the pre-existence of souls. (WS 8:19-20).**
More from the “Protestant Canon”:
**MT 26:41 **
“the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”
Actually, Wisdom does not teach that the body is nothing more than a hindrance to the soul, but rather that it is a (temporal) constraint to the soul on earth that may be the means to tempt one toward sin through the desires and material needs of the body.
That is also what St. Paul teaches as well too many times in Sacred Scripture to list.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant
I
inthecloud
Guest
If you are going to get Plato’s doctrines out of the Bible, you will have to get rid of John’s Gospel and all of Paul letter’s.
A
alanp
Guest
This thread is an answer to a prayer I made after I read a chapter in a book called “Examine the Evidence” by Ralph Muncaster. In this chapter, Mr. Muncaster states that “the Apocrypha was not recognized by Jesus-nor by the New Testament authors or by the church fathers-as Holy Scripture until the 1500’s”. He continues to state that these books “were usually found at the same location as Holy Scripture and were regarded as good references for teaching. However, they were simply not deemed God breathed”. Why were these books located at the same location as the other 66 books if they were not equally important? It was my understanding the Deuterocanonical books were listed as Scripture at the Church councils at Hippo and Carthage. If these books were listed as scripture, they should be considered God breathed???
Here are my questions:
Here are my questions:
- Is my understanding correct that the Apocrypha was listed as scripture and thus “God breathed” by the Councils at Hippo (393) & Carthage ( 397 & 419)?
- Why does the catholic church call these books Deuterocanonical and not simply canonical?
D
Danno2281
Guest
The word ‘deuterocanonical’ was never used until the reformation, and it is used to make the distinction between those books that are in the canon and the apocrypha. There are books of both new and old testaments that are considered ‘apocryphal’: Jubilees and The Shepard of Hermas for example. Protestants lumped the deuterocanonicals in with the rest of the apocrypha. Because we also recognize the apocrypha as apocryphal, the term deuterocanonical was coined to indicate those books which we did not concede as apocryphal, but which the Protestants did. We had to maintain the distinction in dialogue between true apocrypha and these inspired books.This thread is an answer to a prayer I made after I read a chapter in a book called “Examine the Evidence” by Ralph Muncaster. In this chapter, Mr. Muncaster states that “the Apocrypha was not recognized by Jesus-nor by the New Testament authors or by the church fathers-as Holy Scripture until the 1500’s”. He continues to state that these books “were usually found at the same location as Holy Scripture and were regarded as good references for teaching. However, they were simply not deemed God breathed”. Why were these books located at the same location as the other 66 books if they were not equally important? It was my understanding the Deuterocanonical books were listed as Scripture at the Church councils at Hippo and Carthage. If these books were listed as scripture, they should be considered God breathed???
Here are my questions:
Thanks & God Bless!
- Is my understanding correct that the Apocrypha was listed as scripture and thus “God breathed” by the Councils at Hippo (393) & Carthage ( 397 & 419)?
- Why does the catholic church call these books Deuterocanonical and not simply canonical?
P
Pixie_Dust
Guest
5 Myths about 7 Books by Mark Shea, a former Protestant
I
inthecloud
Guest
He said that? He is either deluded or lying for Jesus.In this chapter, Mr. Muncaster states that “the Apocrypha was not recognized by Jesus-nor by the New Testament authors or by the church fathers-as Holy Scripture until the 1500’s”. He continues to state that these books “were usually found at the same location as Holy Scripture and were regarded as good references for teaching. However, they were simply not deemed God breathed”.
There is plenty evidence that the Fathers and the Church recognised them as Scripture. For example when St Jerome questioned them St Augustine slagged him for listening to the Pharisees on the canon. And Jesus and Paul did in places paragraphed Wisdom and Ben Sirach (good wikipedia entries on both books).
Why deuterocanonicals? Because on the councils of Hippo and Cartague there was some books that many people did not agree that should be in the Bible and some books everybody agreed on.
That books that needed a extra look were the secondary list, or deuterocanon (that is what that word means in Latin). And not only included books on the OT but the books in the NT as well, like the one that launched 10,000 protestant churches and 100,000 preachers careers, Revelations, for example.
After the Reformation the reformers choosed to leave the NT as the CC had left it (but Luther tried to take books out if it too).
So the term deuterocanon is now used to call the OT books that the Reformers took out of the inspired list.
V
veritashunter
Guest
Dear Friends:
As noted in my April 11, 2008 posting on this topic the term Deuterocanonical is neither Catholic or Protestant in its first origin. It is a term first used by a Jewish convert to Christianity involved in the translation of the Hebrew and Greek texts into Latin. The term simply means Second Canon.
The term is not intended to establish 2 canons…rather it is to distinguish the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) from all other accepted books of the Old Testament Canon. There are only 2 divisions in the Christian Canon…the Old Testament (of which the Deuterocanonicals belong) and the New Testament.
The term Apocrapha refers to “hidden books” that do not belong to canon while pseudopigrapha refers to “false books” or false teachings.
In fact, the Protestant Canon can be found nowhere in Chrisitan history during the 15 centuries preceeding Luther. Nowhere!
The Protestant Canon is a hybrid of the true Christian Canon and the Jewish Old Testament Canon established at the Jewish Council of Jamnia. This Jewish Council was not covened until a half century or more after the death and resurrection of Christ.
The Pharisees of that Council rejected the Messiah, the crucifixion and fall of the old temple as Christ declared, as well as His glorious resurrection as the new temple. They denied His Church on earth, His very embodiment and His spouse/bride. And they denied that He was the Son of God. The anti-Hellenists tried to purge all Greek Christian influence from Judaism including the Septuagint.
But the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls proved that the Jews accepted the Deuterocanonicals as Canon since they are part of the Sacred Scrolls found in the caves. These scrolls are all written in Hebrew…yes, Hebrew…which shows them to be accepted by greater Judaism rather than just Hellenist (Greek speaking Palestinian) Jews.
So, why would any Protestant such as Martin Luther put their faith and trust in the authority of those same Pharisees and Rabbis that denied Christ.
At the tearing of the veil in the Temple the authority of Judaism ceased on earth! And the Church was Born Again in the Resurrection of the Christ (the annointed)! The Bible is the sacred product of the sacred authors of the sacred Church (the embodiment of Christ on earth…the New Temple raised on the third day)…not the Rabbis. The Old Testament foresaw a time when the Temple would be destroyed (raised to the ground in 70 AD) and God would no longer accept sacrifices from His people for their disbelief and disobedience…and that His name would be great among the Gentile nations. That reborn universal all-encompassing Church has one canon…and it isn’t post-resurrection Jewish or Protestant. It is Catholic and Orthodox!
Protestantism (although well-intentioned and God loving) cannot re-invent canon just as it cannot “start a new church”. There are over 30,000 Protestant denominations and over 4,000 “mainline Protestant denominations”. The word means “God nations”. But there is only one God nation…only one Church on earth. Christ has only one bride…30,000 or even just 4,000 would make Jesus a polygamist of grand proportion. Not likely!
St. Jerome did have his doubts about these books…that is true. But, he never voiced another dissenting opinion after the ruling of the convening Church Council. In fact, he obediently accepted the Magesterial teaching of the bride of Christ, the one holy and apostolic Catholic Church because we are one body with one voice…not 4,000+ bodies and voices/opinions with 4,000+ differing and competing teachings. There is absolute truth in the universe and it is found in teachings His bride, the universal Church (Catholic and Orthodox).
Reflecting upon the definitions of 6 key terms might be quite helpful in these discussions.
In truth, they have a problem with the authority of Christ Jesus and his incarnate bride, His physical embodiment on earth (St. Paul’s words), the Church to which He is conjugally joined in the ever present Eucharist (his very flesh and blood).
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant/Better late than never!
As noted in my April 11, 2008 posting on this topic the term Deuterocanonical is neither Catholic or Protestant in its first origin. It is a term first used by a Jewish convert to Christianity involved in the translation of the Hebrew and Greek texts into Latin. The term simply means Second Canon.
The term is not intended to establish 2 canons…rather it is to distinguish the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) from all other accepted books of the Old Testament Canon. There are only 2 divisions in the Christian Canon…the Old Testament (of which the Deuterocanonicals belong) and the New Testament.
The term Apocrapha refers to “hidden books” that do not belong to canon while pseudopigrapha refers to “false books” or false teachings.
In fact, the Protestant Canon can be found nowhere in Chrisitan history during the 15 centuries preceeding Luther. Nowhere!
The Protestant Canon is a hybrid of the true Christian Canon and the Jewish Old Testament Canon established at the Jewish Council of Jamnia. This Jewish Council was not covened until a half century or more after the death and resurrection of Christ.
The Pharisees of that Council rejected the Messiah, the crucifixion and fall of the old temple as Christ declared, as well as His glorious resurrection as the new temple. They denied His Church on earth, His very embodiment and His spouse/bride. And they denied that He was the Son of God. The anti-Hellenists tried to purge all Greek Christian influence from Judaism including the Septuagint.
But the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls proved that the Jews accepted the Deuterocanonicals as Canon since they are part of the Sacred Scrolls found in the caves. These scrolls are all written in Hebrew…yes, Hebrew…which shows them to be accepted by greater Judaism rather than just Hellenist (Greek speaking Palestinian) Jews.
So, why would any Protestant such as Martin Luther put their faith and trust in the authority of those same Pharisees and Rabbis that denied Christ.
At the tearing of the veil in the Temple the authority of Judaism ceased on earth! And the Church was Born Again in the Resurrection of the Christ (the annointed)! The Bible is the sacred product of the sacred authors of the sacred Church (the embodiment of Christ on earth…the New Temple raised on the third day)…not the Rabbis. The Old Testament foresaw a time when the Temple would be destroyed (raised to the ground in 70 AD) and God would no longer accept sacrifices from His people for their disbelief and disobedience…and that His name would be great among the Gentile nations. That reborn universal all-encompassing Church has one canon…and it isn’t post-resurrection Jewish or Protestant. It is Catholic and Orthodox!
Protestantism (although well-intentioned and God loving) cannot re-invent canon just as it cannot “start a new church”. There are over 30,000 Protestant denominations and over 4,000 “mainline Protestant denominations”. The word means “God nations”. But there is only one God nation…only one Church on earth. Christ has only one bride…30,000 or even just 4,000 would make Jesus a polygamist of grand proportion. Not likely!
St. Jerome did have his doubts about these books…that is true. But, he never voiced another dissenting opinion after the ruling of the convening Church Council. In fact, he obediently accepted the Magesterial teaching of the bride of Christ, the one holy and apostolic Catholic Church because we are one body with one voice…not 4,000+ bodies and voices/opinions with 4,000+ differing and competing teachings. There is absolute truth in the universe and it is found in teachings His bride, the universal Church (Catholic and Orthodox).
Reflecting upon the definitions of 6 key terms might be quite helpful in these discussions.
- Catholic…meaning “all encompassing…universal”.
- Orthodox…meaning “right worship”.
- Protestant…meaning “one protesting the authority of the Church…thereby one who is not in communion with the Church”.
- Church…meaning “the bride of Christ, the embodiment of Christ on earth both mystically and physically present”.
- Ecclessial assembly…meaning “non-sacramental Christian groups outside of communion with the Church”.
- Heresy…meaning “any post-baptismal denial of the Truth and Magesterial teaching of the Church”.
In truth, they have a problem with the authority of Christ Jesus and his incarnate bride, His physical embodiment on earth (St. Paul’s words), the Church to which He is conjugally joined in the ever present Eucharist (his very flesh and blood).
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
Former Protestant/Better late than never!
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