Defending the Faith- Please Help!

[WFS5801]

Could you all take a quick look at this article?

acts1711.com/rcc_bbl.htm

I’m a convert from Protestantism who attended over 2 years of Protestant Bible College. I basically read my way into Catholicism – at least up to the point where I knew the Catholic Church was the true Church. I kind of sat there for several years at the doorstep until my wife (who also converted herself by reading) nudged me through the door.

So I’ve seen these linked arguments again and again.

Protestants (especially some evangelicals) believe the Bible is almost a god. They actually take some Scripture that talks about Christ, the Word and apply that to the Bible. Just so you understand that the “Bible Only” part of their faith is very, very strong.

Some really good books can be found at:

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/

I don’t know who sponsors this website, so I’m not vouching for the organization, it’s the books they host (and especially two by Father Graham) that I think you should look at.

Even though it’s old now, one of the best books on the Bible and how we got it (which will correct “errors” in the Protestant traditions) is Father Graham’s “How We Got the Bible – Our Debt to the Catholic Church.” You can still buy the book, but the site has a link to the text version.

Father Graham also wrote, “What Faith Really Means.” There is also a link that book at the above site. Unfortunately this is one of those scanned in PDF links – which is readable, but not nearly as nice as the text version of the book on the Bible.

An excellent source for refuting Protestant anti-Catholicism is the “Radio Reply” books written by Fathers Carty & Rumble in the 40s and 50s. They are also linked on the above page. It’s actually a three volume set, so a lot of good reading. You should be able to do a text search for specific topics, as the book was meant to be used with an index. Basically any anti-Catholic attack that you can imagine will be refuted there.

There are many online books linked on this page. Many good ones, specifically dealing with Protestantism. This should give you (and those who are working with you) a good start in refuting the tract.

I should also mention the following. The person who is putting out this tract is probably sincere. He probably just came out of Bible College and it is his desire to “root out” the “false” religions. To ask him not to attack Catholicism would not work, he probably considers the Catholic Church the “anti-Christ” and the “Beast” spoken of in the Apocalypse. So the first thing to do is to patiently correct him on all his mis-teachings about what Catholics really believe. I often told Protestants (my old friends) that there are honest differences between Catholics and Protestants, but let’s make sure you’re not attacking what we “aren’t.” (For example we don’t worship Mary as God, we venerate her as the highest creature.) They’ll probably come up with the word “worship” in Old English Catholic writings about Mary, so you’ll have to understand that the language has changed. The English, for example, still use “your worship” when referring to judges.

Lots of levels. But the first thing is to make sure they understand exactly how they got their Bible from the Catholic Church – because that’s the whole basis of “Bible-only” Protestantism, the Bible (the “only authority”). Make them realize that Tradition and the Bible grew up together, Tradition wasn’t an “add-on” that came along centuries later. I would start with Father Graham’s book. It’s relatively short and easy to read. And it will help you to understand where the Protestants are coming on this.

Sorry to ramble, I tend to do that.

God go with you

 

[Warrenton]

I read it and in a way found it rather amusing. Not for what was false, but for what was true. The history of Luther contains the amazing statement that that troubled man discovered a “new concept of God!” He did, indeed! Christians have a word for new concepts of God: heresy.

The author also critisized the Ave Maria, evidently oblivious to the fact that most of its words come right out of the scripture. When the angel said “full of grace,” we Catholics take that in is literal sense. It is the protestants, with their belief that anyone can understand the bible, who decide on their own to limit its meaning, just as they limit the meaning “this is my body” when speaking of the Lord’s institution of the eucharist.

I loved the part where the author says Catholics rule of faith is the catechism while his is the Bible, as if we don’t read the Bible! Query: who decided what books should go in the Bible? The answer is the bishops did. The Bible does not define itself, so there must be some other rule than scripture.

We could go on and on, but one more example will do. Re-read the part about the Trinity. He acknowledges the term is not in the Bible, and suggests it be changed to “tri-unity.” But that term is not in the Bible, either. Uh-oh, do I see a problem with "sola scriptura? If it’s not in the Bibile, who told him that there is a Trinity? If it is a difficult and complex idea, as he admits, then how can he say everyone has enough insight to interpret the scripture?

 

[jonpd]

I bring the “Catholics canonized the Bible” argument all the time, but to no avail. The typical Protestant response I’ve encountered is “The Bible is the Word of God, not the word of Catholics.” or “Catholics interpret the Bible in more than a literal sense, therefore they’re adding to it.” or perhaps the most far-fetched “As soon as Catholics canonized the Bible, the Church started adding things and corruption took over”

What can I say to these?

The church councils chose the books of the Bible guided by the Holy Spirit. So yes it is really God through the Holy Spirit that chose the books. But then I would ask if the Holy Spirit worked through the councils to determine the scriptures then how can they say with certainty that it did not operate in other actions of the councils with which they disagree? They can’t have it both ways.

 

[PJM]

=Drew0426;7220671]Could you all take a quick look at this article?

acts1711.com/rcc_bbl.htm

It says a few things that are slanted strongly against Catholics, and some of it seems to take the Catechism out of context to try and give Catholics some sort of evil image. “Dogmas Declared by the Roman Catholic Church” catches my attention as very out of context, not to mention some of the things in the list are outright lies, based on what I’ve been taught about Catholicism. “Worship of crosses, images and relics authorized” catches my attention as false.

The “history” part in the very beginning is my greatest concern; how true is all of that?

I’m planning to gather a few Catholic friends, and confront the youth minister who has distributed this material, to hopefully see an end to it. I think this article passively encourages readers to harbor content for Catholics, and I’d like to see distribution of this material stopped.

Finally, what do I say to this man, other than “Please stop spreading lies about my faith?”
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1. The dates of ‘Catholic Christianity are wrong: Christ Died around 33-35 AD…. The Church actually having it’s foundation and beginning in Christ while on earth so the start date ought to be before 33 AD and the end date is wrong. There is NO END DATE, as we continue now for some 2,000 CONSECUTITIVE years.

The issue of the first use of the term “Catholic Church” is redundant. Catholic means “Universal” so truthfully the term could not be applied until the Church had grown sufficiently-geographically to warrant the term.

The comment about Christianity being an “offshoot” of Judaism is wrong and misleading. **Luke.22: 20 ***And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.” ** Heb.8: 13 **“In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. “

The comments about Cyprian, a early martyr and Saint of the CC, seem to suggest that somehow he was associated with Gnostics, [a heresy]. If he was it was in defense of the Churches correct position. As to his statement that all salvation if from the CC; it remains true to this day!

“Pope] Innocent III told the princes of Europe that the papacy was like the sun, while kings were like the moon” The papacy’s chief weapons in support of this authority were spiritual penalties.” This authority is biblical: Matt.16:15-19; Matt.18:18, Eph. 2: 1920.

The charge: “Holding the power over the people, the papal office during the thirteenth century led Christianity to its peak of political and cultural influence. The pope claimed power over the holy cause in history and also authority over the souls of men even in eternity.” There is NO evidence that is valid of this claim.

The Charge: Complaints arose against the church in the 13TH. Century by These two individuals were John Wycliffe, and John Hus. Wycliffe began teaching that “Every man, therefore, priest or layman, holds an equal place in the eyes of God.”

While the dates are true; the impact of Wycliff would not really take hold until after the Protestant Revolution , begun by Luther in the 1500‘s. Luther‘s reasons were based on his “95 Thesis” and the “selling of Indulgences [a practice voided and discredited as a result of the effort.]

That’s as far as I went. I have found errors is every single position put forth to this point.**

You might ask with chairity “who founded your church and when, " “are you interestd in spreading THEE Truth”? The CC was Founded by Jesus Chrsit **Matt. 16:15-19, Eph.2: Eph. 2:19 **So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

***Point out that the CC is The Orginal Bible Church:

The OT was collectd by Catholics
The NT was actually written BY Catholics and exclusively for Catholics [because there was no other Christian Church at the time]The Canon of 73 books was by the CC
And Christ personally attest to Her truths. READ: 2 Tim.3:16-17, 1 Tim. 3:15. John 14:16-17; and John 17: 14-19 NOTEb vs. 19 NO other Church cn make the claim that Jesus Himself warrants the TRuth of His CC!**

 

[maritain]

Here are some pamphlets you could print out and give them