Defending Traditional Marriage

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I_am_learning

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Hi guys.
I see many things about Homosexual Marriage like love, rights, freedom, equality, etc on the internet. I would like to hear some arguments to defend Traditional Marriage in a secular way, including what people with these homosexual attractions should do. I know, talking about God is very compelling and defends it well, but I know this wont work for too many.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut appreciated.
 
I_am_learning said:
Hi guys.
I see many things about Homosexual Marriage like love, rights, freedom, equality, etc on the internet. I would like to hear some arguments to defend Traditional Marriage in a secular way, including what people with these homosexual attractions should do. I know, talking about God is very compelling and defends it well, but I know this wont work for too many.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut appreciated.
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I recommend you review the myriad threads on that topic. Googling the topic will also yield results.
 
Something something something Pandora’s box. Something something something cat out of bag…

In my opinion this is like asking the losing football coach how he could have won the game. Sadly this type of effort has lost already and the church could not put together arguments in the public square fast enough…
 
I_am_learning said:
I would like to hear some arguments to defend Traditional Marriage in a secular way,
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There just are none. Secular people stomp all over our sacred sacraments and laugh in our faces…and we’re the “bigots”. Right.:rolleyes:
 
I don’t know if any of you live in San Francisco but the “gays” have taken over – if “traditional marriage” people acted like they do, it would make the international news!!!
 
Barb3 said:
I don’t know if any of you live in San Francisco but the “gays” have taken over – if “traditional marriage” people acted like they do, it would make the international news!!!
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Yes, I had a good friend go on vacation there a couple years ago, he said it was very bad out there.

Its surprising to me God has not, at the very least, sent this particular city a warning of some kind, I mean, he destroyed 2 biblical cities for this very thing in dramatic manner, my only guess is, its a ‘time’ thing, not sure how long Sodom/ Gomorrah lived as they did before the destruction (maybe this is an indicator on how long it takes God to act)?
 
I_am_learning said:
Hi guys.
I see many things about Homosexual Marriage like love, rights, freedom, equality, etc on the internet. I would like to hear some arguments to defend Traditional Marriage in a secular way, including what people with these homosexual attractions should do. I know, talking about God is very compelling and defends it well, but I know this wont work for too many.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut appreciated.
Click to expand...
Regarding what those who are same-sex attracted should do, can you clarify what you mean?

I recommend watching Ryan T Anderson talk on the issue of same-sex marriage. Here he is at Stanford Anscombe Society, which is a secular institution so I’m betting the talk is mostly if not all secular based:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIhZ5xJJaQ

Q&A: youtu.be/nWC22S8FtJs

Here is a 3:31 minute highlight video: youtu.be/oVXX4bvLWRw

He is also a co-author of the book, What is marriage? Man and woman: A defence

At the following link you can access a PDF of arguments and points made him and other co-authors of the book (this paper was published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public policy, as below link points out): papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1722155

The following talk was given at Franciscan University of Steubenville by Dr Jennifer Roback Morse. She makes a number of secular points:

youtube.com/watch?v=I7AwGxqjPWg
 
Defend traditional marriage from what? Whom?

When something is said to need defending, that generally means it is being attacked in some way. I don’t see traditional marriage being attacked.

Marriage as it was prior to the Obergefell decision hasn’t changed. A heterosexual couple with the legal right to marry before that ruling has the exact same right to marry today.
 
I_am_learning said:
Hi guys.
I see many things about Homosexual Marriage like love, rights, freedom, equality, etc on the internet. I would like to hear some arguments to defend Traditional Marriage in a secular way, including what people with these homosexual attractions should do. I know, talking about God is very compelling and defends it well, but I know this wont work for too many.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut appreciated.
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Is this a defense of “traditional marriage”, or merely another way of arguing that SSM should not be allowed?
 
Finite said:
Defend traditional marriage from what? Whom?

When something is said to need defending, that generally means it is being attacked in some way. I don’t see traditional marriage being attacked.

Marriage as it was prior to the Obergefell decision hasn’t changed. A heterosexual couple with the legal right to marry before that ruling has the exact same right to marry today.
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The rights under the law have not changed, but the meaning of marriage must change when the institution is no longer specific to “man+woman” - that uniquely sexually complementary couple. Were marriage to admit groups of 3 persons, it’s meaning would change again, though the “rights” of those in pair/wise unions would not. It is wrong to equate meaning with legal rights.
 
Rau said:
The rights under the law have not changed, but the meaning of marriage must change when the institution is no longer specific to “man+woman” - that uniquely sexually complementary couple. Were marriage to admit groups of 3 persons, it’s meaning would change again, though the “rights” of those in pair/wise unions would not. It is wrong to equate meaning with legal rights.
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Yes, the legal definition of marriage, the civil definition if you will, has expanded, just as it has been expanded in the past. The religious definition has not, and is dependent entirely upon the religion in question. In most common law countries, the religious ceremony has not been adequate to declare a legally recognized civil marriage; the marriage license does that.
 
aclausen said:
Yes, the legal definition of marriage, the civil definition if you will, has expanded, just as it has been expanded in the past. The religious definition has not, and is dependent entirely upon the religion in question. In most common law countries, the religious ceremony has not been adequate to declare a legally recognized civil marriage; the marriage license does that.
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You miss the point of my post. I raised nothing about religion. When thd legal scope “expanded”, it sought to move beyond “marriage”. The legal arrangements support marriage, they are not supposed to define or create it! Our nature as male and female does that!
 
I_am_learning said:
Hi guys.
I see many things about Homosexual Marriage like love, rights, freedom, equality, etc on the internet. I would like to hear some arguments to defend Traditional Marriage in a secular way, including what people with these homosexual attractions should do. I know, talking about God is very compelling and defends it well, but I know this wont work for too many.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut appreciated.
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What version of “traditional marriage” do you want to defend? The Catholic version where divorce is not allowed? The civil version where divorce is allowed? The pre-1967 version where some states had racial as well as sexual criteria for who could marry? The definition of “traditional” marriage has changed over the years, so you need to be clear about what version of marriage you want to revert to.

Your question “what people with these homosexual attractions should do” is a good one. Celibacy is obviously not a reasonable option in the civil arena, so you are going to have to include some form of civil union for same sex partners to replace same sex marriage, with essentially the same legal protections. I do not think you would be able to get away with anything less.

rossum
 
Rau said:
You miss the point of my post. I raised nothing about religion. When thd legal scope “expanded”, it sought to move beyond “marriage”. The legal arrangements support marriage, they are not supposed to define or create it! Our nature as male and female does that!
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Our nature, if behavior of our closest living species is to be factored in, is to have sex. Pair bonding is one approach, but it is not the only one, not even among modern humans.

Or, to put it another way, “natural law” and the “natural marriage” that you derive from it is simply another human construct, one that you ascribe divine commandment to, but which no one outside your group of co-religionists is obliged to recognize.
 
aclausen said:
Our nature, if behavior of our closest living species is to be factored in, is to have sex. Pair bonding is one approach, but it is not the only one, not even among modern humans.

Or, to put it another way, “natural law” and the “natural marriage” that you derive from it is simply another human construct, one that you ascribe divine commandment to, but which no one outside your group of co-religionists is obliged to recognize.
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The behaviour of other species would seem to be irrelevant. The State agrees and does not offer them marriage licenses.

The corollary of your remarks seems to be that all manner of arrangements should attract State recognition and endorsement and be called 'marriage". Or perhaps none?
 
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