Defense against accusation of magical thinking

[Khoria_Anna]

Employed by a protestant ecclesial organization, I often run into their last ditch conversation stopper, “magical thinking.”

I’ve run into this in relation to Real Presence – It’s funny how they can take so much of Scripture literally, but insist on applying symbolism to our Lord’s statements in John 6 and in the Pauline description of Liturgy in I Cor 11. They insist on calling the Catholic position: that Jesus is truly present, body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist, magical thinking, and superstition, bordering on idolatry.

This has also come up in relation to my wearing a miraculous medal. Taking on the wearing such an object that has been blessed, conveys certain graces that strengthen one in the proper dispositions toward holiness. My friends tell me that this is all just magical thinking, and that it is just that I have a reminder, similar to a string tied about my finger to do the right things. No supernatural assistance, special grace at all.

How does one convey this? Or am I off the wall? Or do I just need to pray even more for them?

I’m stymied, please help.

 

[John_Henry]

There are many different stripes of Protestants. One thing I have found is that the folks who accuse of magic are generally the Calvinists/predestinarians. I think this is because they view grace as something that is irresistable. The individual is almost taken over by grace, as opposed to cooperating with it. Therefore, in their mind, it might be logical to think that having grace tied to medals and such things is magical. That by touching a medal, grace overcomes our temptations. But that is not what Catholics believe, as you know. When explaining, try to get behind the words to reality you are trying to convey.

Maybe try explaining (maybe you have) it by making sure you emphasize that medals (sacramentals) do not convey grace. They “merely” open us up to receiving grace. Like a wedding ring recalls to us our vows, so do medals and holy water and scapulars etc. Such a thing is recorded in Acts 19:12. Ask them how they interpret that verse? Where does it say such things cease to occur?

Also, it seems your co-worker has maybe lost the sense of the supernatural in Christianity. Jesus and the apostles cured and raised the dead. Handkerchiefs and shadows were instruments in healings. JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD. All of these things are “magical”, but they all happened and they are all still within the realm of possibility. Christianity is not only a philosophy. It is God’slife breaking in on the world. Such an inbreaking might be (has been) accompanied by signs and wonders.

As for the Eucharist, it’s simply what Christians have always believed.

 

[JimG]

Khoria Anna:

They insist on calling the Catholic position: that Jesus is truly present, body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist, magical thinking, and superstition, bordering on idolatry.

Jesus listeners seemed to have a problem with it too: “This sort of talk is hard to endure! How can anyone take it seriously?” (John 6:60); and "At this the Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can he give us his flesh to eat?” (John 6:52)

But Jesus was quite definite:

“Let me solemnly assure you: If you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you. He who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood, has life eternal, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is real food; and my blood real drink. The man who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood, remains in me, and I in him.” (John 6:53-56)

The Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, plus 1 Corinthians, each go on to relate the institution of the Eucharist. If this is “magical thinking,” they’ll have to attribute it to Jesus.

JimG

 

[Zski01]

You may even refer them to Luther’s thoughts on communion. Most Protestants are surprised at what he has to say about it.

He dances around transubstantiation and declares it to be instead consubstantiation. It’s not the same thing, but he reaffirms the real presence and, with a play on words, says something very close to what we believe.

 

[ralphinal]

Funny how my point is acceptable and yours is magical thinking. Catholics do not limit the power of God by saying that he cannot perform this miracle or convey grace in a certain way. God can do anything short of sin. Anyway, you can also ask if they believe in any modern miracles or signs. They may be of the sort that feels that God is not active today.

 

[thomist]

Until / unless they accept the Authority of the Church as prior to Scripture, there’s no convincing them.

But regarding the Miraculous Medal (or Holy Water, Scapulars, Rosaries, icons, prayer to Saints, etc), have you ever noticed a Protestant’s personal Bible? Talk about fetishist! I have MANY very good and close Evangelical - Protestant friends, and ALL of them have a ‘special’ Bible. It’s usually the first one they got at or immediately after they were “saved!”. They have underlined, highlighted and annotated it since their conversion and this mere book has now taken on a kind of talismanic symbolism for them, albeit they are quite oblivious to this.

Occasionally one of them will lose or misplace his special bible and then approach his friends (even including me - the “Catholic but Christian” friend) begging them to pray that God will return his bible to him. In such instances I’ve always said, “Praise the Lord that some poor pagan will get a gift from God of a Bible that is already annotated, highlit and underlined, so they can get right down to reading it and getting saved!” Their reaction has been uniformly glum, with the usual comment that “If it’s the Lord’s will, I guess, but…(wahh!) I’d really like my Bible back, would you please pray for that?” One time, a protestant friend actually asked me to pray to St. Anthony for her to find her wedding band that had been lost !! When I asked her why she didn’t pray to him herself, she said she - as a Protestant - didn’t believe in that.
In answer to my next and obvious question, “Why ask me to do that?”, she replied: “Because it works when you do it.”
It’s truly amazing, mind-boggling, how mysteriouly God works through us at times!

 

[Matt16_18]

John_Henry:

There are many different stripes of Protestants. One thing I have found is that the folks who accuse of magic are generally the Calvinists/predestinarians. I think this is because they view grace as something that is irresistable. The individual is almost taken over by grace, as opposed to cooperating with it.

In Calvinist theology, irresistible grace just doesn’t take over the individual, it utterly destroys the individual. Irresistible grace would be better named corrosive grace, because it corrodes away the free will of the individual and turns him into a meat robot that is incapable of sin. A man without free will is not a man – at best, he would be a thing that could be said to be alive, but alive only in the way that a fungus is alive. The man without free will would be a living parasite that lives off the life of plants and animals - something like a mushroom in human form.