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B
Beaver
Guest
This should be read
Q
quaysman
Guest
I finally got a chance to read the short article *Deification and the New Evangelization. *This subject hits very “close to home” for me because of the years I spent in “Worldwide Church of God offshoot movements”. Their founder Herbert Armstrong taught an aberrant version of “Deification” - i.e., the “expandable God Family”.
[WCG taught that God was a “family” composed of 2 - Father & Son (Holy Spirit was a “force”)… “God” was like a “last name”… So as God (Elohim) had children, they also took on the “family name”… You get the picture… WCG no longer teaches this.]
The doctrine of the Trinity defines God as “Three in One”. Only these Three (or this One) can share in the ultimate attributes of God (e.g., “self-existence”). So in this sense the “Godhead” is closed - it will never be said that God is “4 in 1”, “4 billion in one”, etc… Obviously more could be said…
I was chatting with a priest the other evening and I brought up the subject. “The statement of Athanasius must be understood in a qualified manner ?” I asked… “Oh yes” he confirmed… I then mentioned how I was a little surprised that there is no footnote in the Catechism (2nd Edition) that qualifies the quotation. He pointed out that the 1st Edition of our present Catechism had a significant “compendium” of corrections and that the 2nd edition is not without its flaws. Perhaps an upcoming 3rd edition will qualify the statement.
I looked it up in Jurgens. The full quote is as follows:
“He became man so that we might be made God; and He manifested Himself in the flesh, so that we might grasp the idea of the unseen Father; and He endured the insolence of men, so that we might receive the inheritance of immortality.” (St. Athanasius)
The point, as I understand it, is that we will truly become partakers of the divine nature, but we will not be “God as God is God”. Saints will always have “degrees” - God obviously does not have “degrees”. Again much more could be said to distinguish between God and the Saints.
But none of this should downplay the awesome glory that is our inheritance. Partaking of the divine nature will certainly make us “like God” (and that’s not too shabby, right?). We will be “united” with God as a wife to a husband.
Ephesians 5:30-32 “…we are members of [Christ’s] body. ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ This mystery is a profound one, and I mean in reference to Christ and the church…”
A mystery profound indeed…
Grace & Peace
[WCG taught that God was a “family” composed of 2 - Father & Son (Holy Spirit was a “force”)… “God” was like a “last name”… So as God (Elohim) had children, they also took on the “family name”… You get the picture… WCG no longer teaches this.]
The doctrine of the Trinity defines God as “Three in One”. Only these Three (or this One) can share in the ultimate attributes of God (e.g., “self-existence”). So in this sense the “Godhead” is closed - it will never be said that God is “4 in 1”, “4 billion in one”, etc… Obviously more could be said…
I was chatting with a priest the other evening and I brought up the subject. “The statement of Athanasius must be understood in a qualified manner ?” I asked… “Oh yes” he confirmed… I then mentioned how I was a little surprised that there is no footnote in the Catechism (2nd Edition) that qualifies the quotation. He pointed out that the 1st Edition of our present Catechism had a significant “compendium” of corrections and that the 2nd edition is not without its flaws. Perhaps an upcoming 3rd edition will qualify the statement.
I looked it up in Jurgens. The full quote is as follows:
“He became man so that we might be made God; and He manifested Himself in the flesh, so that we might grasp the idea of the unseen Father; and He endured the insolence of men, so that we might receive the inheritance of immortality.” (St. Athanasius)
The point, as I understand it, is that we will truly become partakers of the divine nature, but we will not be “God as God is God”. Saints will always have “degrees” - God obviously does not have “degrees”. Again much more could be said to distinguish between God and the Saints.
But none of this should downplay the awesome glory that is our inheritance. Partaking of the divine nature will certainly make us “like God” (and that’s not too shabby, right?). We will be “united” with God as a wife to a husband.
Ephesians 5:30-32 “…we are members of [Christ’s] body. ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ This mystery is a profound one, and I mean in reference to Christ and the church…”
A mystery profound indeed…
Grace & Peace
B
Beaver
Guest
When the priest at the alter place a little water into the wine he says this prayer…
O God, who wondrously ennobled human nature in creating it and even more wondrously restored it, grant that throught this water and wine we may be made partakers of his divinity, who condescended to partake of our humanity, Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord; who lives and reigns with You in unity with the Holy Spirit one God forever and ever. Amen
God Bless
P
Prometheum_x
Guest
We can go further back than St. Athanasius for language which speaks of some form of “divinization”. 1 John 3:2 indicates that when Jesus returns, then we shall be like him. 2 Peter 1:4 is where we find the phrase “partakers of the divine nature.”
Q
quaysman
Guest
Prometheum_x said:
Ahhh, Prometheum…
You chose the word I am more “comfortable” with… In fact in my mind I even read “divinisation” while I was reading the post. I only noticed that it said “deification” when I was typing my reply…
But something I read recently indicated that “deification” (deificatio) is indeed the term that the Early Fathers predominantly used. It is fascinating how language shapes, colors, and limits our theological concepts.
Those are good passages that you cite from Peter and John. But then there is the passage in John 10 (34-36 specifically) that I have difficulty with. I have heard it quoted in the context of the whole divinisation discussion. I’m just not sure in what sense to understand Jesus’ remark “you are gods”, a reference to Psalm 82:6. Is this Psalm actually a “word of encouragement” stated in the “negative”?
Grace & Peace
Q
quaysman
Guest
Thank you… Now I “get” your “mingling of water” post… So THAT’S what the priest says… I can never quite hear him…
Grace & Peace
P
Prometheum_x
Guest
82:7 “But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.”
My understanding has been that in this case “gods” isn’t referring to actual divinization but to men occupying positions of authority as judges, participating in God’s role as judge. As Psalm 82 points out, they were doing a very poor job of fulfilling that responsibility.
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