Destİny

[mhmtas]

DESTİNY AND FREEDOM of DECİSİON and CHOİCE OF HUMANBEİNG

Destiny is that God knows everything and writes all happenings in reserved tablets timelessly. Human has a free decision that may choice bad or good things. Measure, canon and  follwing  benifical and useful ways in every stages in universe demonstrate that creature and governer of universe has an absolute justice. Than God must give a free decision and choice to humanbeing  to not avoid and escape from amenability.

Everyone can feel a free decision for himself. Forexample some when take or buy something choice the best or which is amusing or which is like.

Fate can be thought for pious people but not for faithless. Because while unbelieving people do not have a faith and refuse God how they can consider fate.

When a Pious to escape from amenability for his sins and mistakes say thsese were my fate. Than free decision of humanbeing admonish that “choice is yours than amenability is yours.”

And when a pious crow and be proud of for goodness that he owns. Than destiny says: giver and owner is not you or not with your gathering but fortune that is given and written in your fate by God. Because all estate is God’s. Owner and master of your body and whole world and universe is God. Humanbeing share only a free decision that can’t creat and generate because creating just and only belong to God.

Question: İf everything is written before than what is meanning of exam and amenability of humanbeing? And if God had written everything before than where is my free decision and choice?

Reply: The knowing, seeing and writting of God is timelessly. Time and space is valid and effective for substance and humanbeing. God empower and allow humanbeing for his decision and choice. When a person choice and purpose something to do than God creats and generates it. İt is not important that choice of human is good or evil because human is being test. Human do not do that action because of God writting or forcing but by his free decision. İnvolved issue is that God know and write everything before. But there is no time for God and God know and see everything as timelessly. Past, present and future is effective for us. But God see and control all times at once. So God know and see before human decide and choice and God write in as timelessly. Already if God couldn’t see everything timelessly than there were no mean in being Deity and God.

God is just and fair. God created universe in excelent and confer and bestow body, life and countless benefaction and food to human. God mercy and grace human. Does such a fairfull and mercifull God could be considerable as a despot and harsh? İf you can’t undersatand some mysteries than be sure and certain that there are answers to these issues but you do not know yet.

Question: Everything is written before and that is fixed and constant. Assume that someone shoot and kill a man. What would be happen if someone should not shoot? Do man will die because that is written in his fate and that can’t be change?. Otherwise do man will not die because it was written that man wiil die by shooting?

Reply: İt can’t be said that man will die or not. Because human can’t know and see future. God know actually what will happen. İf shooting do not happen than we can’t know what is written that is constant. He may die or not. That is secret for us but for God everything is so obvious.

 

[Sam_777]

Destiny is that God knows everything and writes all happenings in reserved tablets timelessly.

Again that preserved tablet myth !!!

Quran is full of:

1. Historical errors.
2. Naming errors.
3. Language errors.
4. Suras mismatch between the past Quran during Muhammad times and our current time!

SO which one is in error the “Preserved tablet” or the “Quran”

 

[John_Martin]

DESTİNY AND FREEDOM of DECİSİON and CHOİCE OF HUMANBEİNG

mhmtas,
I think you might like reading Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica. He writes of the understanding of God, fate (or destiny), freedom of choice, the “Book of Life” which may be similar to what you term the “reserved tablets” (I do not know for sure about this, since I have very little knowledge of Muslim writings or teachings).

But your words sound like you do a lot of thinking and work at understanding. So, take a look at this link, if it please you, ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.i.html
I do not know, but there may also be internet sights with Thomas Aquinas translated into your native language - you would have to look for those.

I enjoyed reading your thoughts, and it brought up a lot of memories of things I had read in Aquinas.

John Martin

 

[mhmtas]

Again that preserved tablet myth !!!

Quran is full of:

1. Historical errors.
2. Naming errors.
3. Language errors.
4. Suras mismatch between the past Quran during Muhammad times and our current time!

SO which one is in error the “Preserved tablet” or the “Quran”

I wrote about destiny to aid and solve issues that confuse minds. Qoran is fully words of God. There is no mean to assault Qoran because this state benefits for atheist. İndeed some passages of Bible were corrupted by time and Qoran gives correct form of these. There are Preserved Tablet (Levh-i Mahfuz as in Qoran) and good peoples have seen these facts (Angels, Hell, Heaven, Preserved Tablets) by moral discovery. Ofcourse if your faith is healty enough you can understand otherwise you will deny. And if you accept that does not damage your faith and Christianity conversely enrich.

 

[Sam_777]

Qoran is fully words of God.

I will not take Muhammed’s word for that, I think (also most Christians believe) that what came to Muhammed in the cave is nothing but a bad spirit (aka Satan himself), since that spirit actions contradict any true heavenly Angel that came to previous prophets.

Here is some authentic references from your religion which show how violent that bad spirit was:

Firstly, here is a verse from Quran which describes that Satan himself revealed some text of Quran to Muhammed (and Muhammed didn’t know that):
(Quran 22.52):
Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

  **Secondly,** the force that was used by Gabriel when he met Muhammed in the cave:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
“The Prophet added, “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’ Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’ Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” …”

Thirdly, the revelation on Muhammed was very hard per this hadith:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
(the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle “O Allah’s Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?” Allah’s Apostle replied, “Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ’ off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says.” 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over).

Fourthly, in the following hadith Muhammed said that the bell is an instrument of Satan, and Muhammed in the hadith (in my third point) said “Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell”.
Sahih Muslim, Book 024, Number 5279:
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The bell is the musical instrument of the Satan.

Fifthly, in the following hadith Muhammed said that Angels do not accompany travellers who have bells, then why Gabriel was making sounds of bells (as shown in my third point) !
Sahih Muslim, Book 024, Number 5277:
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Angels do not accompany the travellers who have with them a dog and a bell.

İndeed some passages of Bible were corrupted by time and Qoran gives correct form of these.

Who says so !!!, where is the authentic proof of that, when you say that the Bible was corrupted, then you are speaking about the OT + NT, JESUS came after the OT and did not say or teach or tell anyone that the OT is corrupted, in the contrary to that, JESUS read from it in many occasions, so Muhammed cannot come after 600 years and claim something from his mind (or from that spirit mind).

There are Preserved Tablet (Levh-i Mahfuz as in Qoran) and good peoples have seen these facts (Angels, Hell, Heaven, Preserved Tablets) by moral discovery.

Please enough of that preserved tablet myth, there is no reference for it neither in the OT nor in the NT…

 

[mhmtas]

I

Answer:

Muslim believe in all prophets those were sent before Mohammed (asm) because prophet Mohammed instruct divine inspiration so perfectly. İf Prophet Mohammed did not teach the God words correctly people neither would believe in him nor other prophets. We have no doubt. How Angel came to other prophetst hundreds year ago so came to Mohammed. Because thousands of people witnessed this fact.

You misunderstand reveal of God. İn this verse God say that Satan did not threw some (not vanity but apprehension and misgiving) in the reveal but in heart and mind of listener and hearers (Read real text). And God say that God will counteract. Yes God counteracted his divine inspiration. Muslims believe in one God but not plural God and that is the correct form of faith. Because Christians say Jesus is son of God or is God himself. But Qoran correct this the fact is that Jesus is humanbeing and only prophet of God just like other prophets but not son.

İn the Hadiths sounds of Angels that you say bell is not bell. That voice is like clangor that caused by speed and many things like bees. (Read real text or true form of version) Because Angels are so much and act and travel so fast that maket hat voice. İf angel could not travel so fast how would they go and come from heaven or by god.

There are more than one Bibles. Wich one of this is the true one? Mohammed is the last and seal of prophet. And if Mohammed were not really prophet Muslims would no accept any prophet.

İf you only believe that Bible is the last scripture than you consider only Bible. Muslim can see the true course of Christianity but Christians can not see. That shows that Muslim believes are more right and healthy. But muslims do not refuse Christians entirely but there are some mistakes (examp:Trinity).

 

[Love4All]

Catholicism is the True Islam, and the destiny of every gentle soul.

 

[Sam_777]

How Angel came to other prophetst hundreds year ago so came to Mohammed. Because thousands of people witnessed this fact.

Angels came to previous prophets in a PEACEFUL way, not in a hard way as that bad spirit did to Muhammed, plus no one EVER witnessed that claimed angel which had visited Muhammed.

(Read real text).

Would like me to post the hadithes to you in Arabic is you can read Arabic?

There are more than one Bibles. Wich one of this is the true one?

There is only ONE Bible BUT many translations.
On the contrary, there are many Quran versions AND many translations.

Mohammed is the last and seal of prophet.

Where is the reference from the Bible !, JESUS said "“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”.

Muslim can see the true course of Christianity but Christians can not see. That shows that Muslim believes are more right and healthy. But muslims do not refuse Christians entirely but there are some mistakes (examp:Trinity).

That is a non sense, Muslims refuse the main principle of Christianity which is the “CRUCIFIXION”.

 

[Pugsly]

To Mhmtas…You are thinking very deeply about God and especially about the “fixed” knowledge that God has concerning our individual fate. That is very good. Have you ever considered that God, before anything was allowed existence, looked into a vast sea of possibilities…and chose a Path that would result in your salvation? I believe that “Path” is Jesus, the Son of God. That Path was the BEST POSSIBLE way for God to rescue you and others from the dark chaos of oblivion
A lot of the Muslim faith has been twisted for a very long time…to over emphasize God’s POWER and STRENGTH…to the near rejection of our being able to know, love and have a personal relationship with Him. Excessive focus on God’s POWER (for many hundreds of years) and near rejection of God’s Mercy and knowability…has brought us to the place where Muslims are “serving God” with blind submission to cruel clerics…while Western Christians are OVEREMPHASIZING God’s Love…so we can sin with impunity

Just now…Western Christianity is collapsing…and the Muslim faith is spreading…but never forget that God is not so much blessing the Muslim cruelty…as punishing wickedness among Western Christians.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

The original post is very hard to follow because of the poor quality of the English. Does it boil down to the idea that we have free will and God has perfect foreknowledge of our free decisions?

 

[mhmtas]

Angels came to previous prophets in a PEACEFUL way, not in a hard way as that bad spirit did to Muhammed, plus no one EVER witnessed that claimed angel which had visited Muhammed.

Muhammed’s friends(Muslim who see prophet, Sahabe) witnessed. İf you can believe that Angel came to prophets hundred years ago that announced by apostles why can’t you believe angel to come prophet Muhammed. These Sahabe are known with their family tree and lifes. After they met prophet they did not lie in any way. How hundreds Sahabe can lie about thousands subjects in İslam. A bad spirit can not do this action and effect and could not have so correct and useful news. “Hard way” you mean is that for the importance and significanse of divine inspiration that is so heavy to carry physically and morally. When a man die he sweats. When a man get very important charge he gets care and fear. Why do you understand in other way?

Would like me to post the hadithes to you in Arabic is you can read Arabic?

My Arabic is poor as like my English. I struggle to improve either. We read Qoran verse and hadiths in Arabic than in Turkish version. This versions is so authentic because made by qualified about religious topics.

There is a one Qoran with all letters same on the earth. But there are thousand comments(tefsir) of Qoran. I profess ı do not know about Bible much. I believe essence of Bible is God’s reveal Because Qoran say this. But Bible have been written after depart of Jesus(Peace be on him). So which verses are real reveal to Jesus and whichs are comments and knowledge of apostles is not obvious.( I have not enough knowledge about this topic. Perhaps I am wrong.)

Where is the reference from the Bible !, JESUS said "“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”.

There are 114 verses from Bible, Torah,Zebur( I do not know english name, given to prophet David) those designate prophet Muhammed. Hüseyin Cisri wrote these in the book of Risale-i Hamidiye.

Qoran, Hadid sure(57), verse tree: God is the evvel(beginning), âhir(end), zahir(external), batın(internal). İf you delete “Jesus said” Bible is the same as the Qoran. İf you cancel referring to God( (Muhammed said) he is the beginning, end, … ) than Muhammed become God but that is not true. Perhaps God gave divine inspiration to Jesus by angel and Jesus notified this but apostles conjectured that Jesus say this and Jesus is the God. ( I know saying and claiming this is not easy perhaps not fair. Because Christian for thousand years believe this and this is the cause of salvation. But if Christian consider Jesus as only a prophet even so they have salvation.)

Quoteugsly:

Muslim know(believe in God) and love God so much that they are so pious and hard in religious. That is true. Because Muslim would like to thank God that God gave life, foods, faith, … Mercy and grace of God is so vast, high that Muslims not to disrespect to God are so careful and hard.

İf salvation is only by Jesus than what would happen for people that come before Jesus. All prophets are the way of salvation beginning from the firts human and prophed Adam to last prophet Muhammed. God’s mercy and grace is not so narrow to belong to only one way. God’s mercy enclose all humanbeings.

 

[Sam_777]

Muhammed’s friends(Muslim who see prophet, Sahabe) witnessed. İf you can believe that Angel came to prophets hundred years ago that announced by apostles why can’t you believe angel to come prophet Muhammed.

Yes indeed there is no doubt about an angel came to Muhammed, but that angel was not Gabriel, it was Satan.

There is a one Qoran with all letters same on the earth.

No there are many versions of Quran with different Surah and different lengths, check this video:
youtube.com/watch?v=yz3FlUSvKIc

İf salvation is only by Jesus than what would happen for people that come before Jesus.

They are all in the salvation plan, including Jews & Muslims, read this CCC 841:
“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

My Arabic is poor as like my English. I struggle to improve either. We read Qoran verse and hadiths in Arabic than in Turkish version. This versions is so authentic because made by qualified about religious topics.

:nope: Unfortunately and sorry to till you that but without a proper knowledge of Arabic, you will never fully understand Islam, you will be easily manipulated by the bias translations of Muslims trying to persuade you on a misleading meaning.

https://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif I suggest you start a thread in the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum, and let us discuss your points one by one, who knows maybe the True GOD will reveal Himself to you if your hear is pure…