Deuterocanonical Dates

[Milliardo]

I am in a discussion with another one in another board, and it irked me that he should think that the Deuterocanonicals plagiarized from the New Testament; he wants to have the dates of the Deuterocanonicals as proof they’re written before the New Testament. I thought it’s common sense that the Deuterocanonicals were known to have been written before the New Testament.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Milliardo,

This is so preposterous, it hardly deserves an answer. You could ask him to give you the dates of the books of the Bible he does accept! But you don’t need to get into an argument about dates. Just quote some passages from 1 and 2 Macchabees and ask him to tell you where in the NT that was plagiarized. Why should you work when he is the one making gratuitous statements?

Verbum

 

[Fidelis]

I am in a discussion with another one in another board, and it irked me that he should think that the Deuterocanonicals plagiarized from the New Testament; he wants to have the dates of the Deuterocanonicals as proof they’re written before the New Testament. I thought it’s common sense that the Deuterocanonicals were known to have been written before the New Testament.

Assuming such a paranoid person would believe you or your references, here is what the NAB introductions to the seven DC books say:

The Book of Judith is a vivid story relating how, in a grave crisis, God delivered the Jewish people through the instrumentality of a woman. The unknown author composed this edifying narrative of divine providence at the end of the second or the beginning of the first century B.C.

The Book of Wisdom was written about a hundred years before the coming of Christ. Its author, whose name is not known to us, was a member of the Jewish community at Alexandria, in Egypt.

1 Maccabees was written about 100 B.C., in Hebrew, but the original has not come down to us. 2 Maccabees would probably not have been produced much before the end of the second century B.C.

The Book of Tobit, named after its principal hero, combines specifically Jewish piety and morality with oriental folklore in a fascinating story that has enjoyed wide popularity in both Jewish and Christian circles. Prayers, psalms, and words of wisdom, as well as the skillfully constructed story itself, provide valuable insights into the faith and the religious milieu of its unknown author. The book was probably written early in the second century B.C.; it is not known where.

The Book of Sirach derives its name from the author, Jesus, son of Eleazar, son of Sirach (Sirach 50:27). Its earliest title seems to have been “Wisdom of the Son of Sirach.” The designation “Liber Ecclesiasticus,” meaning “Church Book,” appended to some Greek and Latin manuscripts was due to the extensive use which the church made of this book in presenting moral teaching to catechumens and to the faithful. Written in Hebrew between 200 and 175 B.C., the text was translated into Greek sometime after 132 B.C. by the author’s grandson, who also wrote a Foreword which contains information about the book, the author, and the translator himself.

Baruch was written about the same time as Jeremiah and Lamentations (the 6th century) with which it is closely associated (the historical Baruch was the secretary of Jeremiah).

If you look in a respectable non-Catholic source, you will find the same approximate dates.

 

[Milliardo]

Yes, thank you for the replies. Another objection he has is that the other books had prophecies, so if a book doesn’t have any prophecy, then it isn’t inspired. Actually, I find his reasonings rather ludicrious as well.

 

[Fidelis]

Another objection he has is that the other books had prophecies, so if a book doesn’t have any prophecy, then it isn’t inspired.

Talk about dumb and dumber. Did he make up this little test for canonicity himself, or did he absorb it from some other misinformed soul — 'cause it sure ain’t in the Bible!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Re prophecies see Wisdom 2:10-20

Let us oppress the needy just man; let us neither spare the widow nor revere the old man for his hair grown white with time.11 But let our strength be our norm of justice; for weakness proves itself useless.12 2 3 Let us beset the just one, because he is obnoxious to us; he sets himself against our doings, Reproaches us for transgressions of the law and charges us with violations of our training.13 He professes to have knowledge of God and styles himself a child of the LORD.14 To us he is the censure of our thoughts; merely to see him is a hardship for us,15 Because his life is not like other men’s, and different are his ways.16 He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure. He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father.17 Let us see whether his words be true; let us find out what will happen to him.18 For if the just one be the son of God, he will defend him and deliver him from the hand of his foes.19 With revilement and torture let us put him to the test that we may have proof of his gentleness and try his patience.20 Let us condemn him to a shameful death; for according to his own words, God will take care of him."

Such prophecies are one of the reasons the Jews rejected the book.

 

[Milliardo]

Re prophecies see Wisdom 2:10-20
Such prophecies are one of the reasons the Jews rejected the book.

Yes, I pointed that out to him already; that’s where he said the Deuterocanonicals plagiarized from the New Testament, and then he kept on asking if there are more prophecies in the Deuterocanonicals. It’s as if his sole criteria for a book to be inspired is that it must have prophecy.