Did Abraham go to sacrifice Isaac or Ishmael?

[MHalsey]

The dead persons cannot pray for you. They need your prayers. They have passed away. They cannot pray or do any other good deed. You are asking St. Joan of ark to pray for you. Whatever prayers miss Joan was to do, she had done it and gone to the next world as a martyr.

In Islam we do not ask dead people to pray because they cannot do it.

Can’t argue the post, so you slam the signature. I’ll take that as an indication that you’re conceding.

 

[planten]

Can’t argue the post, so you slam the signature. I’ll take that as an indication that you’re conceding.

There is no need of any agument. There was the christian point of view. I Had described the Muslim point of view. So we can leave it at that. THE CHURCH tells that dead people can pray for the living even now. But Islam tells us that the dead people have gone away for good. They cannot come back to this world and they cannot do any good or bad deed.

Who is right and who is wrong will be understood by the readers. If any one feels that the dead people can pray for the living then he/she should give proof from the bible. Since there is nothing from the bible (no such example) therefore I say that it is the personal view (word of mouth) of some person and not the real teachings of JESUS. If necessay, then bring something on this subject from the bible please.

 

[ralphinal]

There is no need of any agument. There was the christian point of view. I Had described the Muslim point of view. So we can leave it at that. THE CHURCH tells that dead people can pray for the living even now. But Islam tells us that the dead people have gone away for good. They cannot come back to this world and they cannot do any good or bad deed.

Who is right and who is wrong will be understood by the readers. If any one feels that the dead people can pray for the living then he/she should give proof from the bible. Since there is nothing from the bible (no such example) therefore I say that it is the personal view (word of mouth) of some person and not the real teachings of JESUS. If necessay, then bring something on this subject from the bible please.

There is much in the BIble about this, and some is directly from Jesus. Look at Mark 12:27

He is not the God of the dead, but of the Living, you are quite wrong

God and Jesus always use the termonology that He is the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac, etc. He never says that he WAS the God of Abraham, etc.

Further, and I know that you will reject this because it is Paul, but look at Romans 8:38-39

For I am sure that neither DEATH, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities,not things present, nor things to come, nor powers,nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord

The Bible teaches us that through baptism we are joined in the Body of Christ and through Christ we have ETERNAL LIFE, not eternal nothingness. The angels are aware as seen in Scripture. In Revelations, the saints in heaven are aware, too, praising God for all eternity. To support the beleif that saints are aware, look at the parable of the dead rich man and the dead poor man in Luke 16. The dead rich man tries to intercede for his brothers, and is told that he cannot. He asks if the dead poor man could do so. He is not told that it is impossible, but that they would not listen EVEN TO ONE WHO CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD.

 

[MHalsey]

There is no need of any agument. There was the christian point of view. I Had described the Muslim point of view. So we can leave it at that. THE CHURCH tells that dead people can pray for the living even now. But Islam tells us that the dead people have gone away for good. They cannot come back to this world and they cannot do any good or bad deed.

Who is right and who is wrong will be understood by the readers. If any one feels that the dead people can pray for the living then he/she should give proof from the bible. Since there is nothing from the bible (no such example) therefore I say that it is the personal view (word of mouth) of some person and not the real teachings of JESUS. If necessay, then bring something on this subject from the bible please.

This thread was about Ishmael and Isaac. You have turned it into something else. There are more than enough threads on this site regarding intercessory prayer (that’s what we Catholics call it). However, if you really want to discuss it, start another thread.

Incidentally, you were not stating opinion. You were claiming the poster was wrong for believing something. You did not respond to the post. You attacked the poster’s beliefs because of the signature.

 

[planten]

This thread was about Ishmael and Isaac. You have turned it into something else. There are more than enough threads on this site regarding intercessory prayer (that’s what we Catholics call it). However, if you really want to discuss it, start another thread.

Incidentally, you were not stating opinion. You were claiming the poster was wrong for believing something. You did not respond to the post. You attacked the poster’s beliefs because of the signature.

Attack was not intended. Even though it was off topic, there was a statement to the effect that some one was praying to a dead person. I did not know that it was the main belief of the Catholics. I also knew that according to Islam, it was not right to ask a dead person to pray for us. So I sent my post. There is no attack.

If you think that I am wrong in saying what I said then you can simply tell me that I am wrong in my belief. So we will come to know that the Catholics believe in asking the dead people to pray for them. It is only an exchange of ideas. You can tell me again that I am wrong in what I said. That is the belief of MUSLIMS IS WRONG AND THAT OF THE Catholics is right. Thanks. I don’t mind.