Did God predestined Mary to be sinless? If so, why can a loving God create a man sinless but not all?

[Senyorico]

Please cite sources if there’s any, I’d love to read pertinent arguments!

 

[Vico]

Please cite sources if there’s any, I’d love to read pertinent arguments!

Could all be conceived in a state of sanctifying grace? Theoretically it could be so, but there is no revelation of that in scripture and tradition, so the Church defined only that Jesus Christ and the Blessed Virgin Mary were conceived in a state of grace. It is not known exactly when Adam and Eve were constituted in the state of grace rather that it was prior to their sin.

To be completely sinless, since original sin of Adam, and attain salvation requires two things:

1. A state of sanctifying grace at conception.
2. Cooperation with that grace so as to not freely commit mortal sin. Note that this is possible from the state of sanctifying grace.

Pohle, J. (1911). Predestination. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm:

Owing to the infallible decisions laid down by the Church, every orthodox theory on predestination and reprobation must keep within the limits marked out by the following theses:

a) At least in the order of execution in time (in ordine executionis) the meritorious works of the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness;
b) hell cannot even in the order of intention (in ordine intentionis) have been positively decreed to the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.

 

[IdaCatholic]

God created mankind sinless. And he created man with a free will. When man chose sin, sin entered the world. This original sin taints all. Mary was created without original sin, just like Adam and eve were. She was also given free will, but unlike Adam and eve chose to align her Will to God in all ways. That is why she is the “new Eve”

 

[CRV]

As the Mother of God, it is fitting that her womb be pure for the Son of God to reside in - ie be Holy and pure. So Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin for this purpose, as no less would be fitting for the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Search for Catholic explanations on the Immaculate Conception.

 

[Wesrock]

As the Mother of God, it is fitting that her womb be pure for the Son of God to reside in - ie be Holy and pure. So Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin for this purpose, as no less would be fitting for the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Search for Catholic explanations on the Immaculate Conception.

Even the Orthodox who reject the Immaculate Conception (it’s important to emphasize that their theology on original sin (or ancestral sin, as they call it) is a little different) still believe that Mary went her whole life without sin.

 

[CRV]

believe that Mary went her whole life without sin.

That she did!

 

[Latin]

MARY WAS FREE FROM ALL PERSONAL SIN John Paul II

Testifies that Mary, free from original sin , was also preserved from all actual sin and that this initial holiness was granted to her in order to fill her entire life.

Trent expresses this conviction, affirming that no one can avoid all sins, even venial sins, throughout his life, unless he is given a special privilege, as the Church holds with regard to the Blessed Virgin (DS 1573).

The Council of Trent asserts, a special privilege guarantees this immunity from sin. And this is what happened with Mary.

The special privilege granted by God to her who is all holy leads us to admire the marvels accomplished by grace in her life.

https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2BVM24.HTM

.
We may say, Mary had the free will to sin, but for Mary to commit even one act of sin it was a theological impossibility, because God has given to Mary all the graces necessary to INFALLIBLY accomplish her God’s gift of fate/ destiny.

The same principle applies also to all of us, God has given all of us (every members of the human race) according to His will different gifts of fates/ destinies and He also given us all the graces necessary for INFALLIBLY accomplish our God’s gift of fates/ destinies.

By the grace of God Mary completed her God given fate/ destiny, in the same way, by the grace of God we will all (every member of the human race) complete our God given fates/ destinies.

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For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the Divine will or power is called fate.

But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God.
Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happens, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

God, directs EVERYTHING/ EVERY EVENT according to His DIVINE DESIGN/ PLAN, and every event preordained from all eternity, nothing occurs by chance.
.
As we see above, Mary’s fate was not in her and our fates are NOT IN US, but IN GOD.

God chosen to Mary and He created her gift of fate and God given to Mary all he graces necessary to INFALLIBLY accomplish her gift of fate/ destiny.

In the same way like in the case of Mary, God chosen every one of us and He created our different gifts of fates/ destiny we need to complete His work of creation and God given to every one of us all the graces necessary to INFALLIBLY accomplish our gift of fates as co-workers for His kingdom (307).

Our fates/ destinies are His tailor-made gifts of fates for every one of us, every member of the human race.

307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, … “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.
.
God bless

 

[Justin_Mary]

Did God predestined Mary to be sinless? If so, why can a loving God create a man sinless but not all?

Please cite sources if there’s any, I’d love to read pertinent arguments!

If he wanted to I’m sure he could. But he didn’t. So, I think, there must be something important about the journey he set us on.

Imagine you have two kids, one you dote on & give everything she could possibly want. The second you admonish & chastise at every turn. He has to work for everything he gets. Which child will turn out better?

Hard to say right? It really depends on how the child responds doesn’t it?

 

[Jen7]

So is it correct to say God created May pre-baptized (ie baptized at conception)… or what it more than that?

 

[Gorgias]

So is it correct to say God created May pre-baptized (ie baptized at conception)… or what it more than that?

No… it is more than that! Even though, at baptism, the “stain of original sin” is removed, we are still prone to concupiscence, and have a “darkened intellect and weakened will.” These effects remain in us, even after baptism. Mary had none of these. So, in her case, she really was a “second Eve”!

 

[goout]

Since God is outside time, can God (of course he can) apply the merits of Christ’s life, death, and resurrection, at whatever time and place he wishes?

 

[Jen7]

No… it is more than that! Even though, at baptism, the “stain of original sin” is removed, we are still prone to concupiscence, and have a “darkened intellect and weakened will.” These effects remain in us, even after baptism. Mary had none of these. So, in her case, she really was a “second Eve”!

Wow. I never thought of it like that!! I wonder why God did that? Seems like he was stacking the deck. Would a “regular person” with the effects of the Fall already not have been able to accept the calling??

 

[ziapueblo]

This is a great article from the Eparchy of Newton (Melkite Greek Catholic Church) and the Eastern view:

https://melkite.org/tag/conception-of-the-theotokos

ZP

 

[Gorgias]

I wonder why God did that? Seems like he was stacking the deck.

The Church would say that it was “fitting” (or “appropriate”) to do, in preparation for the Incarnation of Jesus. Not “stacking the deck” so much as “prepping the table.”

Would a “regular person” with the effects of the Fall already not have been able to accept the calling??

I guess the question to ask isn’t “able to accept the calling?”, but rather “able to fulfill the calling, throughout her whole life?”, right…?

 

[ziapueblo]

A great talk by Archbishop Nicholas Samra of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church:

ZP

 

[Inquiry]

Gorgias:

No… it is more than that! Even though, at baptism, the “stain of original sin” is removed, we are still prone to concupiscence, and have a “darkened intellect and weakened will.” These effects remain in us, even after baptism. Mary had none of these. So, in her case, she really was a “second Eve”!

Wow. I never thought of it like that!! I wonder why God did that? Seems like he was stacking the deck. Would a “regular person” with the effects of the Fall already not have been able to accept the calling??

Flip the question. Could someone bear Jesus and be a “regular person”? Mary’s immaculate conception wasn’t just a necessary precursor to the birth of Christ, it was possible through the merits of her son. She was free from sin so she could bear Jesus, and her son is the source of her freedom from sin. B causes A, therefore B can happen.

Circular reasoning for us, but God is outside of time.

 

[Jen7]

I guess the question to ask isn’t “able to accept the calling?”, but rather “able to fulfill the calling, throughout her whole life?”, right…?

Either way, it makes Mary feel less relatable to me. I like to think of her experiencing many of the emotions I’d experience if I were in her shoes - morning sickness, Braxton Hicks contractions, fear, loneliness, exhaustion. But maybe Mary was not actually emotionally affected by these things happening because she “walked with God” like Adam And Eve did & was so aware of his presence it was almost like being in heaven already…???

 

[Gorgias]

Either way, it makes Mary feel less relatable to me. I like to think of her experiencing many of the emotions I’d experience if I were in her shoes - morning sickness, Braxton Hicks contractions, fear, loneliness, exhaustion.

Hmm…

You know what, though? The Church talks about Mary remaining a virgin throughout her life, so there’s a certain amount of interesting theology around her childbirth experience, but… it doesn’t say that she didn’t go through the same emotions, exhaustion, and experiences of pregnancy! We do know that she “pondered things in her heart” from her experiences as a mother – wouldn’t that also hold for her experiences as a pregnant mother? I’m a guy, so what do I know, but… Mary seems more approachable to me – after all, she experienced what humanity was supposed to be like in the first place! If my goal is heaven, then Mary is my closest example of what living life to the fullest was always supposed to be! Was she “in heaven already” while here on earth? No… but she was what being human was meant to be!

 

[Sarcelle]

Mary inspires me actually.

I try to live life by asking God daily to fill me with his Grace and I try to cooperate with that same Grace.

I may not do it as well as Mary but I try.

As for fear, loneliness and exhaustion, I think she feels those too. She’s not exempt from human emotions just like Jesus wasn’t also exempt.

Remember the agony in the garden?

 

[runningdude]

God gave Mary the grace to remain sinless, but she still had free will and had to choose to follow God in all things.