Did Jesus intend for us to attend "church"?

[NextElement]

So I’ve been watching a lot of Francis Chan videos, and I think he is an awesome guy. Yes he is a “non-denominational” Christian pastor, but I don’t think that prevents him from being a good role model. He believes in good works and speaks at Catholic youth events as well.

In one video, he was talking about how he felt that his church (in terms of the building, the band, etc) was making people forget the true message of Christ. He said if he had it his way, he would go out into fields or under shade trees and have everyone pray and worship together there. That got me thinking, and raised this question in my mind:

Did Jesus intend for his disciples to attend a church every weekend? When he was with his Apostles/disciples, they seemed to have worshipped wherever they could. At least from my reading of the Gospel, I’ve never seen an instance where they actually built a building. I do think it would be cool to have people go out and pray outdoors, and I’m a big believer in the “give up everything and follow me” message that Jesus portrayed. How can we be sure that big, ornate buildings are what he desired us to worship in?

 

[jediliz]

Well, the early Christians met for “breaking of the bread” in ACTS.

 

[adawgj]

First off Jesus said “I have not come to abolish, but fulfill”

When your living in 1st century A.D. as a Christian (Catholic) you would have to literally hide your identity because the Romans persecuted the Christians. What the apostles and others would do to celebrate the breaking of the bread (Mass) in the catacombs.

Having an official building is like being a sitting duck for the authorities to kill you. It wouldn’t be till years later church buildings were formed.

The apostles tried to preach in the synagogue until they were thrown out.

I’m pretty sure Christ intended for us to worship in a church since he established his Church under St. Peter.

 

[anixx]

So I’ve been watching a lot of Francis Chan videos, and I think he is an awesome guy. Yes he is a “non-denominational” Christian pastor, but I don’t think that prevents him from being a good role model. He believes in good works and speaks at Catholic youth events as well.

In one video, he was talking about how he felt that his church (in terms of the building, the band, etc) was making people forget the true message of Christ. He said if he had it his way, he would go out into fields or under shade trees and have everyone pray and worship together there. That got me thinking, and raised this question in my mind:

Did Jesus intend for his disciples to attend a church every weekend? When he was with his Apostles/disciples, they seemed to have worshipped wherever they could. At least from my reading of the Gospel, I’ve never seen an instance where they actually built a building. I do think it would be cool to have people go out and pray outdoors, and I’m a big believer in the “give up everything and follow me” message that Jesus portrayed. How can we be sure that big, ornate buildings are what he desired us to worship in?

Yeah, let’s all be tree hugers and pretend we worship God. I don’t think a person in error is a role model. Especially if you know this. Jesus’ disciples never worshiped God, nor broke bread (the Eucharist) under a tree, that’s for sure. They met in private houses, since they couldn’t build temples. But as soon as they could do this, they did. Once Christianity was tolerated, emperor Constantine ordered the building of the first St Peter basilica on the hill of Vatican. This was the 4th century. Sancta Maria Maggiore, dates back to the Vth century. I doubt that a charismatic person, who, by the way, has nothing to do with the history of the Church, would know something about Jesus or his religion. They always mix truth with lies, beware of false prophets.

 

[simpleas]

Yeah, let’s all be tree hugers and pretend we worship God. I don’t think a person in error is a role model. Especially if you know this. Jesus’ disciples never worshiped God, nor broke bread (the Eucharist) under a tree, that’s for sure. They met in private houses, since they couldn’t build temples. But as soon as they could do this, they did. Once Christianity was tolerated, emperor Constantine ordered the building of the first St Peter basilica on the hill of Vatican. This was the 4th century. Sancta Maria Maggiore, dates back to the Vth century. I doubt that a charismatic person, who, by the way, has nothing to do with the history of the Church, would know something about Jesus or his religion. They always mix truth with lies, beware of false prophets.

Whats wrong with hugging a tree?

 

[adawgj]

Whats wrong with hugging a tree?

Who said they would hug ya. They’d probably throw a couple of apples at you.

 

[anixx]

Who said they would hug ya. They’d probably throw a couple of apples at you.

This was funny. I remember the scene from the Wizard of Oz.

 

[seagal]

So I’ve been watching a lot of Francis Chan videos, and I think he is an awesome guy. Yes he is a “non-denominational” Christian pastor, but I don’t think that prevents him from being a good role model. He believes in good works and speaks at Catholic youth events as well.

In one video, he was talking about how he felt that his church (in terms of the building, the band, etc) was making people forget the true message of Christ. He said if he had it his way,** he would go out into fields or under shade trees and have everyone pray and worship together there**. That got me thinking, and raised this question in my mind:

Did Jesus intend for his disciples to attend a church every weekend? When he was with his Apostles/disciples, they seemed to have worshipped wherever they could. At least from my reading of the Gospel, I’ve never seen an instance where they actually built a building. I do think it would be cool to have people go out and pray outdoors, and I’m a big believer in the “give up everything and follow me” message that Jesus portrayed. How can we be sure that big, ornate buildings are what he desired us to worship in?

But I’m from Canada, we could only do that for 2 weeks of the year!

Jesus was a Jew and followed all the Jewish traditions concerning worship, including going to synagogue every week. Having said that, the law only requires us to “keep holy the Sabbath day”, and Jesus showed us how to do that by offering the sacrifice of the Mass. It’s so much easier to congregate in a building rather than a field somewhere. Plus, mass won’t be called on account of rain. Or snow.

 

[adawgj]

But I’m from Canada, we could only do that for 2 weeks of the year!

Jesus was a Jew and followed all the Jewish traditions concerning worship, including going to synagogue every week. Having said that, the law only requires us to “keep holy the Sabbath day”, and Jesus showed us how to do that by offering the sacrifice of the Mass. It’s so much easier to congregate in a building rather than a field somewhere. Plus, mass won’t be called on account of rain. Or snow.

Or sunburns

 

[phil19034]

Mass can be celebrated outside when needed. However, I do think that Jesus intended for us to have Mass mainly indoors. If not, he would not have preached inside the synagogues and would not have celebrated the Eucharist indoors.

However, the buildings are not required. Mass outdoors is better than no Mass at all. When I was in the Boy Scouts, I celebrated Mass outdoors several times and once with a Bishop.

God Bless.

 

[Dodge_pursuit]

Here’s a thought: there’s nothing wrong with occasional outdoor worship. There’s nothing wrong with going to conferences, where we hear a few good speakers and listen to worship music and give God praise.

But these activities do not REPLACE the mass.

I’ve belonged to non-denominational “churches” where folks listen to loud contemporary music every week and hear a loud, passionate message from a preacher. That’s OK sometimes but I missed the liturgy, the old and new testament readings, the reverence, the quiet prayer time, the sacraments and above all, the EUCHARIST.

I must echo what another poster said, that we ought to beware seeing anyone who lives and teaches error as a role model. We can love them. We can see the good things in their ministry. But keep it in perspective; the same preacher would likely say Catholics are idolaters for kneeling before the blessed sacrament and the mass is sacrilegious.

One final note: I pray and worship outside whenever the weather allows it. I pray my rosary and read my bible out on the back porch, under the sky and with the birds singing in the background, except when it’s too cold or raining.

 

[jmcrae]

Did Jesus intend for his disciples to attend a church every weekend?

Yes. His Apostles provided Mass for their followers in two parts - on Saturdays, they attended the Liturgy of the Word at the nearest synagogue, and then on Sundays they celebrated the Liturgy of the Eucharist (the “breaking of the bread” referred to in the Book of Acts) in people’s homes. As the Church grew larger, these Sunday celebrations would take place in the local Bishop’s home, which would be furnished and renovated to accommodate the crowds. These were our very first Christian Churches, and even today, the Bishop often still lives in his Cathedral, or very close by.

How can we be sure that big, ornate buildings are what he desired us to worship in?

Jesus is the King of Kings. If earthly kings get to live in palaces, then why should not the King of Kings have an ornate and beautiful palace for His tabernacle to reside in (since the Tabernacle contains His real presence). Jesus is no longer some homeless guy wandering the streets (if He ever was - somehow I doubt it) - He has conquered, and is risen up, and He is worthy to stand in glory.

 

[Gorgias]

Did Jesus intend for his disciples to attend a church every weekend? When he was with his Apostles/disciples, they seemed to have worshipped wherever they could.

Really? Can you point out an instance where they worshipped outdoors? Not prayed, mind you – after all, Jesus prayed always, and so we see Him praying all over the place – but you made the claim that they worshipped everywhere. Can you provide a Scriptural citation for this?

I do think it would be cool to have people go out and pray outdoors

Absolutely nothing wrong with that! (But, there’s a difference between ‘prayer’ and the kind of ‘worship’ that’s fitting to “keep[ing] holy the Sabbath”!)

How can we be sure that big, ornate buildings are what he desired us to worship in?

Have you ever seen the depictions of the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem, where Jesus went for Jewish feasts, or read the description of the first Temple in the OT?

Anyway, a church doesn’t have to be a ‘big, ornate building’; it could also be a ‘small, non-descript building’.

jmcrae:

Yes. His Apostles provided Mass for their followers in two parts - on Saturdays, they attended the Liturgy of the Word at the nearest synagogue, and then on Sundays they celebrated the Liturgy of the Eucharist (the “breaking of the bread” referred to in the Book of Acts) in people’s homes.

seagal:

Jesus was a Jew and followed all the Jewish traditions concerning worship, including going to synagogue every week.

Spot on!

 

[josh987654321]

So I’ve been watching a lot of Francis Chan videos, and I think he is an awesome guy. Yes he is a “non-denominational” Christian pastor, but I don’t think that prevents him from being a good role model. He believes in good works and speaks at Catholic youth events as well.

In one video, he was talking about how he felt that his church (in terms of the building, the band, etc) was making people forget the true message of Christ. He said if he had it his way, he would go out into fields or under shade trees and have everyone pray and worship together there. That got me thinking, and raised this question in my mind:

Did Jesus intend for his disciples to attend a church every weekend? When he was with his Apostles/disciples, they seemed to have worshipped wherever they could. At least from my reading of the Gospel, I’ve never seen an instance where they actually built a building. I do think it would be cool to have people go out and pray outdoors, and I’m a big believer in the “give up everything and follow me” message that Jesus portrayed. How can we be sure that big, ornate buildings are what he desired us to worship in?

I believe, because that big, ornate building contains the tabernacle, which contains Christ, wholly and fully present in body, blood, soul and divinity (The Holy Eucharist).

I believe sensationalism does much harm to souls.
Jesus to Catalina:

The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf

My children, poor sinners! Do not distance yourselves from Me. I wait for you night and day at the Tabernacle. I will not reproach you for your crimes; I will not throw your sins in your face. What I will do is to wash you with the Blood of My wounds. Do not be afraid, come to Me. You do not know how much I love you.

Jesus to St Faustina -

"I desire to unite Myself with human souls; My great delight is to unite Myself with souls. Know; My daughter, that when I come to a human heart in Holy Communion, My hands are full of all kinds of graces which I want to give to the soul. But souls do not even pay any attention to Me; they leave Me to Myself and busy themselves with other things. Oh, how sad I am that souls do not recognize Love! They treat Me as a dead object" (Diary, 1385).

p.s. To hear anyone advocating the disposal of the dwelling places of Christ . I would suggest to those people, to spend some time in Eucharistic adoration and then see if they would still be content standing around a tree or playing more music etc etc (sensationalism).

St. Angela of Foligno -

*“If we but paused for a moment to consider attentively what takes place in this Sacrament, I am sure that the thought of Christ’s love for us would transform the coldness of our hearts into a fire of love and gratitude.” *

St. Augustine -

*“Christ held Himself in His hands when He gave His Body to His disciples saying: ‘This is My Body.’ No one partakes of this Flesh before he has adored it.” *

From the writings of St. Augustine, Sermon 3, 2; circa A.D. 410 {original translation} -

*“Recognize in this bread what hung on the cross, and in this chalice what flowed from His side… whatever was in many and varied ways announced beforehand in the sacrifices of the Old Testament pertains to this one sacrifice which is revealed in the New Testament.” *

St. Francis of Assisi -

*“What wonderful majesty! What stupendous condescension! O sublime humility! That the Lord of the whole universe, God and the Son of God, should humble Himself like this under the form of a little bread, for our salvation”

“…In this world I cannot see the Most High Son of God with my own eyes, except for His Most Holy Body and Blood.” *

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

In one video, he was talking about how he felt that his church (in terms of the building, the band, etc) was making people forget the true message of Christ.

I wholeheartedly agree in cases where people adore/admire those when something far greater is infront of them, Christ, the king of kings, wholly and fully present in body, blood, soul and divinity.

He said if he had it his way, he would go out into fields or under shade trees and have everyone pray and worship together there.

I believe here, he is just replacing one form of sensationalism with another.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

The Sacred Heart Image (St Margaret-Mary Alacoque)

http://s7.postimg.org/4jx43bm1n/Christ_7.jpg

Jesus to St Margaret-Mary Alacoque -

"Behold this Heart which has loved men so much that it has spared nothing, even to exhausting and consuming itself in order to testify to them it’s love. In return I recieve from the greater number nothing but ingratitude by reason of their irreverence and sacrileges and by the coldness and contempt which they show me in this sacrament of Love." (Holy Eucharist)