Did Joseph divorce Mary?

[Big_Dummy]

(Mat 1:19 KJV) “Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.”

(Matt. 1:19 NET) “Because Joseph, her husband to be, was a righteous man, and because he did not want to disgrace her, he intended to divorce her privately.”

Deuteronomy 24
1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

 

[Big_Dummy]

Leviticus 21:7
They shall not take a wife that is a whore, or profane; neither shall they take a woman put away from her husband: for he is holy unto his God.

Deuteronomy 22:19
And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.

Jeremiah 3:1
They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Ezekiel 44:22
Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

Matthew 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:11
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

1 Corinthians 7:12
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

 

[GeorgeTheWild]

You should have kept reading.

NAB:

18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.
19 Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly.
20 Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her.
21 She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.”
24 When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.
25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.

NIV:

18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about[d]: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. 19 Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet[e] did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[f] because he will save his people from their sins.”

22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[g] (which means “God with us”).

24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

 

[Big_Dummy]

I am dealing with a person who claims that Joseph divorced Mary and as such she remained a virgin because of that. This does not make sense to me because

Matthew 1:25
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

 

[GeorgeTheWild]

I am dealing with a person who claims that Joseph divorced Mary and as such she remained a virgin because of that. This does not make sense to me because

Matthew 1:25
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

I don’t understand the way you phrased the question. You asked “Did Joseph divorce Mary?”. The answer to that is clearly no. If the question was really “Was Mary a perpetual virgin?” then the answer depends on the authority you give to Catholic Church tradition.

 

[agent_grey]

Matthew 1:25
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

In scripture “until” does not necesarily mean the event then took place. The problem with this is that it is taking modern English and custom and applying it to an alien Language and an alien custom.

All that statement means is that he did not have sex with the Holy Spirits spouse while she was pregnant with the Holy Spirits child. This does not mean that he had sex with the Holy Spirits spouse after she gave birth. Besides even if she did committ the sin of adultery with Joseph she can still be forgiven by the blood of the Holy Spirits son. Another words even if she cheated on the Holy spirit she did not blasphemy the Holy spirit. That said I do not belive the blessed virgin cheated on the Holy Spirit. And more so for the Honor of blessed Joseph I can not imagine he would have had sex with the mother of Gods own child.

 

[Trishie]

The friend who claims Joseph divorced Mary may not be very familiar with the Bible.

Read Matthew Chapter 1 verses 8-24
This is how Jesus Christ came to be born. His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph; but before they came to live together she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
Her husband Joseph, being an upright man and wanting to spare her disgrace, decided to divorce her informally.

He had made up his mind to do this when suddenly the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, 'Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because she has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit.
She will give birth to a son and you must name him Jesus, because he is the one who is to save his people from their sins.'Now all this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken through the prophet: Look! the virgin is with child and will give birth to a son whom they will call Immanuel, a name which means ‘God-is-with-us’.
When Joseph woke up he did what the angel of the Lord had told him to do: he took his wife to his home;

 

[JRKH]

I think that part of the issue here is a problem in translation not so much of the actual words, but of understanding culture.

Mary was “betrothed” to Joseph but they had not lived together. So what does this mean? Basically that they were, what we would call, engaged to be married but the marriage contract had not been completed.
In those days, marriages were arranged and when the marriage contract was decided on between the two houses, the couple was “bethrothed” (engaged).

So - while they were engaged, Mary was found to be with child. This was a situation of great danger for Mary as she could be stoned to death. Joseph decided to “put her away” or break of the contract quietly so as not to cause any scandal.

Now - because the idea of being “betrothed” was such serious business in those days (very different than our concept today) this breaking off of the contract was much more serious. I haven’t looked into the greek or hebrew words specifically but I would wager that the same word, or one very similar is used for both cases since it involves the breaking of a marriage contract.

So - what needs to be looked at is not only the words used in the translation but what this meant in the culture of the day.

Peace
James

 

[Big_Dummy]

Deuteronomy 20:7
And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her.

In the Bible.

Several Biblical passages refer to the negotiations requisite for the arranging of a marriage (Gen. xxiv.; Song of Songs viii. 8; Judges xiv. 2-7), which were conducted by members of the two families involved, or their deputies, and required usually the consent of the prospective bride (if of age); but when the agreement had been entered into, it was definite and binding upon both groom and bride, who were considered as man and wife in all legal and religious aspects, except that of actual cohabitation.

The root (“to betroth”), from which the Talmudic abstract (“betrothal”) is derived, must be taken in this sense; i.e., to contract an actual though incomplete marriage. In two of thepassages in which it occurs the betrothed woman is directly designated as “wife” (II Sam. iii. 14, “my wife whom I have betrothed” (“erasti”), and Deut. xxii. 24, where the betrothed is designated as “the wife of his neighbor”). In strict accordance with this sense the rabbinical law declares that the betrothal is equivalent to an actual marriage and only to be dissolved by a formal divorce.

Betrothal and Home-Taking.
(see image) Scene at a Betrothal of German Jews, Eighteenth Century.(From Bodenschatz, “Kirchliche Verfassung.”)

After the betrothal a period of twelve months was allowed to pass before the marriage was completed by the formal home-taking (“nissu’in,” “liḳḳuḥin”). In case the bride was a widow or the groom a widower, this interval was reduced to thirty days (Ket. v. 2; Shulḥan 'Aruk, Eben ha-'Ezer, 56). After the dispersal of the Jews had brought them into contact with the Western peoples, this arrangement was felt to be inconvenient and out of harmony with the prevailing views. It therefore becamecustomary to perform the entire marriage ceremony, betrothal and home-taking (“erusin” and “nissu’in”), at one time; and an affiancing or engagement similar to that prevailing among non-Jews was introduced. This was not an entire innovation, as its roots already existed in the custom of “shiddukin” or consent to marry, which existed in the days of the Talmud and probably also in the Biblical age. It was considered indispensable by the rabbis that a man should gain the good-will and consent of his prospective bride before entering upon a contract of marriage. Rab, the Babylonian amora, was accustomed to punish severely any one who married without first having persuaded and gained the consent of his wife (Ḳid. 13a; Yeb. 52a et al.).

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=995&letter=B&search=betrothed

Matthew 1:25
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

saying the word “until” does not mean he did not have relations with her after “taking her to be his wife” makes no sense to me and I am Jewish.

 

[Third_Day]

Matthew 1:25
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

saying the word “until” does not mean he did not have relations with her after “taking her to be his wife” makes no sense to me and I am Jewish.

Matthew’s point was that Jesus was born of a virgin. His point was that there were no sexual relations until she gave birth. Matthew is not addressing what happened after the birth.

 

[Big_Dummy]

based on the word “until” and based on the fact he took her as his wife, and based on the fact of what becoming one means, ya yeah, he had relations after Jesus’ birth.

1.Genesis 2:24
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

2.Matthew 19:5
and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ?

3.Matthew 19:6
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

4.Mark 10:8
and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh.

5.1 Corinthians 6:16
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

6.Ephesians 5:31
“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”

If Mary did not fulfill “be fruitful and multifply” in marriage or at least try to, then she was in fact sinning.

 

[Contarini]

Deuteronomy 20:7
And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her.

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=995&letter=B&search=betrothed

Matthew 1:25
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

saying the word “until” does not mean he did not have relations with her after “taking her to be his wife” makes no sense to me and I am Jewish.

Most Jews would disagree (that you are Jewish in any religiously relevant sense).

 

[elvisman]

Deuteronomy 20:7
And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her.

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=995&letter=B&search=betrothed

Matthew 1:25
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

saying the word “until” does not mean he did not have relations with her after “taking her to be his wife” makes no sense to me and I am Jewish.

Matt. 1:25** says: but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.**
Did Mary have other children after Jesus? The Bible does not support this idea. Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”:**

2 Samuel 6:23** tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.**
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died*?***

**Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44): For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."’ **
**Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool? **

The problem here is that the opponents of Mary’s perpetual Virginity attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.