Did Joseph really have to travel to Bethlehem for the census?

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enanneman

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My friend, who is Jesuit-trained but has since left the church, questioned me about the need for Joseph to travel to Bethlehem for the census. From Luke 2:1-5 “In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that the whole world should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment, when Quirinius was governor of Syria. So all went to be enrolled, each to his own town. And Joseph too went up from Galilee from the town of Nazareth to Judea, to the city of David that is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.”

My friend stated that although there were indeed censuses in the time of Jesus, people simply were counted where they resided. That, there is no historical evidence of such a requirement for people to return to a “home town.” He painted a picture of the upheaval that would be caused by people criss-crossing the known world to return to their “home towns.” He also questioned what would be considered one’s home town–where they were born? Their father’s birth place? Their grandfather’s?

He stated that this notion of Joseph having to register for the census in Bethlehem was added later to fulfill the prophesy of Jesus being born in the city of David.

As you can imagine, this has troubled me greatly. Can anyone offer any resources show the validity of this passage?

Thank you and God bless!

Eric
 
Why do you believe him? What is it that makes his view particularly trustworthy? I certainly would have difficulty trusting anyone who makes a vow to God, then later breaks that vow.
 
wow. that’s a new one. i thought i’d heard them all…

sigh… why do we find it so impossible to believe what the Bible says? i mean, this isn’t even a miracle!

if it makes you feel any better, in my days of study for my theological degree, and in all the years i’ve spoken to theologians and read their words throughout my lifetime, i’ve never heard this argument. i think it’s a pretty lousy one.

however, it would take a serious historian to refute the argument. you’d have to find someone (any in the house?) who knew the history of that time well enough to support the claim that censuses were often taken in such a way as the Bible describes.

or you can believe the Bible and the church. 🙂
 
He painted a picture of the upheaval that would be caused by people criss-crossing the known world to return to their “home towns.”
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Every male Israelite was required to visit the Temple three times a year (Ex. xxiii. 17; Deut. xvi. 16). Imagine the upheaval that caused.

The pilgrimage to Jerusalem (to just one city) on one of the three festivals of Passover, Shabu’ot, and Sukkot was called “re’iyah” (= “the appearance”). The Mishnah says, “All are under obligation, to appear, except minors, women, the blind, the lame, the aged, and one who is ill physically or mentally.”

I wouldn’t be dismayed about the “upheaval” picture that he painted. Israelite’s were quite used to pilgrimages.
 
Thanks for the link Shiann.

Here’s the relevent excerpt:
… it was not an unusual requirement that people return to the place of their origin, or to the place where they owned property. A decree of C. Vibius Maximus in A.D. 104 required all those absent from their home towns to return for a census. Jews were quite used to travel, making annual pilgrimage to Jerusalem. (Dr. Norman Geisler, “Alleged Errors in Luke,” Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, Baker, 1999)
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I think your ex-Jesuit friend is assuming too much and not really interested in real history. For some reason he is using this one event as an excuse for not believing in all the others, which is suspect to begin with, or am I wrong about that?

In any case, we have to take into consideration who the author of this account was and who he was writing to and why. Only after answering these questions can one truly understand the text.

Firstly, the author was a Gentile, not a Jew. Secondly, he was writing to another Gentile, and lastly, he was writing to explain the life of Jesus to that person, a person of some importance it is surmised from the way Luke addresses him.

Luke referred to historical events that could easily be verified at the time. Now, why would he do such a thing if those events couldn’t be verified–it would be a pretty idiotic thing to do, wouldn’t it.

And he may have only been referring to the Jewish people needing to return to the city of their family group, and for Joseph, that was the City of David, Bethlehem.

And lastly, I don’t think Caesar Augustus cared if he disrupted people’s lives, especially those living in countries that were constantly trying to pull away from Rome. What better way to keep such people off guard and to learn who they were and who their relations were than to make them all return to their tribal cities?

Oftentimes, it seems to me, that people who make unsubstantiated claims about what could and couldn’t have happened in biblical times do so only to make excuses for their unbelief. Any reasonable person could read a bit of plain history and come to the same conclusions I did, although I do have a B. A. in Bible and religious education.
 
‘And lastly, I don’t think Caesar Augustus cared if he disrupted people’s lives, especially those living in countries that were constantly trying to pull away from Rome.’

lol. good point.
 
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enanneman:
My friend, questioned me about the need for Joseph to travel to Bethlehem for the census. From Luke 2:1-5 My friend stated that although there were indeed censuses in the time of Jesus, people simply were counted where they resided.
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And his “proof” that it didn’t happen is ??? Just because he doesn’t think it needed to be done??? Some history buff.
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enanneman:
He stated that this notion of Joseph having to register for the census in Bethlehem was added later to fulfill the prophesy of Jesus being born in the city of David.
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Again his proof of this is???
So sorry to hear about your friend, falling away from the Church. We believe Scripture is the inspired Word of God, it contains no errors in teaching. You should ask yourself the question “Why would anyone question Scripture other than attempting to refute the authority Jesus established in His Church?” Especially on such an argumentative subject. General observation, we only question authority of the Church when we want “our own” authority. Because we basically don’t like the way Jesus established His Church. Their assumption is, if I can get you to question these facts, you must then question both Scripture and the Church authority. No Church authority and I can use my own authority.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
I certainly would have difficulty trusting anyone who makes a vow to God, then later breaks that vow
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Della:
I think your ex-Jesuit friend
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Before the Jesuit-bashing gets too far into gear, Eric’s original post described his friend as “Jesuit-trained”. Unless and until Eric says otherwise, I take that to mean he attended a Jesuit high school, a Jesuit college, or a Jesuit seminary, not that he was a member of the Society.

Many years,

Neil
 
Irish Melkite,

I didn’t presume him to be a priest, but from “Jesuit trained” (which I am as well), I presumed that he was at least a confirmed Catholic. The vow I refer to is that of every confirmed Catholic, that is, belief in the Holy Catholic Church.
 
jeffreedy789 said:
‘And lastly, I don’t think Caesar Augustus cared if he disrupted people’s lives, especially those living in countries that were constantly trying to pull away from Rome.’

lol. good point.
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A priest once told me Never question a book that was written by the hand of God! I know he was referring to a lot of the people with their thoughts on Jonah, Noah, Adam and Eve etc. Everything that is written in the bible is truth, and theologians can argue all day long about it. But when people start the Adam and Eve discussion it all begins… Why this? What about this? How could this be? There are many things we take on faith in the Catholic church, so I just say this is what I have learned about the Roman Catholic faith, so argue with Rome not me… I know sometimes it is a copout but I do get tired of trying to explain to someone of my own faith the beliefs of the church they profess to believe in (maybe if this issue was presented by a protestant I may take some time with it, but for the Catholic’s I save my battles for the big stuff, consecration, communion etc.
 
I’m not sure what “Jesuit trained” means. I went to a Jesuit college, and considered their theology department to be below the level of their other departments.
That, there is no historical evidence of such a requirement for people to return to a “home town.”
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He doesn’t consider the gospels to be a primary historical source?
 
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enanneman:
He painted a picture of the upheaval that would be caused by people criss-crossing the known world to return to their “home towns.”
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Wow. I bet there would be a lot of upheaval. In fact, I bet in some cities, all the inns would be full and even pregnant ladies would end up in the stables…

Oh, wait! 😃
 
Well, I for one, think that the account of the census is one of the most fulfilling and beautiful details of the nativity of Jesus.

If you were in a plane at 70,000 passing over ancient Palestine, what would you see?

If you looked closely, you would see all the tribes of Israel assembled in their proper place. You would see celebrations as all these family members got together, sort of a reunion.

And, at the precise moment that all the tribes are in their right place, there Jesus comes into their midst. And, what are we looking at when we see Jesus in the midst of His people and angels singing overhead? Well, I see a beautiful image of heaven represented in an earthly form.
 
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BayCityRickL:
If you looked closely, you would see all the tribes of Israel assembled in their proper place.
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Well, two of them.

Maybe three. You could argue that the Levites’ place was “everywhere”. I guess.

But as for the other 10…
 
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