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georgemiller
Guest
Is catholic doctrine that blessed mary actually experienced bodily death? Or are catholic free to believe that mary at the close of her life on was taken directly to heaven without going through bodily death?
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The Church is silent on the question. However, the most ancient tradition and accounts (notably that of St. John Damascene) do tend toward the position that Mary did die. It is also the position I personally hold.
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giuseppe96
Guest
Personally, I believe that either Mary died and immediately was taken to heaven, or she was taken into heaven right before she was to die. In connection with her Immaculate Conception, I don’t believe that God would allow for her to undergo that same bodily corruption and decay that all other bodies go through.
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GEddie
Guest
No way of knowing and it doesn’t matter all that much.
ICXC NIKA
ICXC NIKA
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Dorothy
Guest
And I remember hearing, very long ago, that because her Son died that she would also want to die.
But, as others mentioned, that is speculation, and even irrelevant .
We can be sure that she was bodily assumed into heaven, and did not undergo corruption.
But, as others mentioned, that is speculation, and even irrelevant .
We can be sure that she was bodily assumed into heaven, and did not undergo corruption.
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twf
Guest
The idea that She didn’t die is a modern Western novelty. I don’t think you can find it prior to the 1700s. While Prius XII didn’t dogmatize her death, he speaks of her death in the same encyclical in which he promulgated the dogma of Her Assumption. It is the unquestioned tradition of the East where this feast is called the Dormition, or Falling Asleep, of the Mother of God. The ancient tradition is that she died and then shared in the resurrection of Her Son.
Why would the Lord deprive Her of that glory? All of the saints get to share in His resurrection but His own Mother does not? If She didn’t die, it also, I feel, compromises the nature of this feast as a foretaste or promise of the Church’s ultimate destiny. Our Lady is the perfect prototype of the Church, thus it would be fitting that She first died and then rose again in Christ.
Why would the Lord deprive Her of that glory? All of the saints get to share in His resurrection but His own Mother does not? If She didn’t die, it also, I feel, compromises the nature of this feast as a foretaste or promise of the Church’s ultimate destiny. Our Lady is the perfect prototype of the Church, thus it would be fitting that She first died and then rose again in Christ.
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thephilosopher6
Guest
Nobody knows for certain whether or not the Blessed Virgin Mary died, but it seems to be that the most popular opinion is that she did indeed die first, her soul went to Christ, and then she was later resurrected and assumed bodily into heaven by God. This is the official stance of our Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters, and the most popular stance held among our fellow western Christians. Though my priest, for example, believes she did not die but was just assumed into heaven.
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dmar198
Guest
While I agree with part of your post, I disagree with the main point of it. The part I agree with is this: the tradition that Mary did die seems to have stronger support in tradition, and this is true in both East and West, including in the 1700s and up to today. That said, I don’t agree that the opposing theory is “new” or that it arose in the 1700s. If we go by the evidence of ancient documents (which are admittedly not just incomplete, but woefully so – and perhaps secondary to the liturgical evidence on this topic), both theories have been around about just as long, though the “didn’t die” theory has less support.
The “Doctor of the Assumption” – St. Epiphanius of Salamis – is the first Church Father who I am aware of who explicitly discusses the Assumption (note: he is not the first to discuss it…just the first to discuss it explicitly, that I am aware of, among those whose writings we still possess) and its various possible circumstances. And in the primary text where he speaks about it, he speaks of both theories as already being thrown around in his time: “The holy virgin may have died and been buried—her falling asleep was with honor, her death in purity, her crown in virginity. [She] may have [even] been put to death—as the Scripture says, ‘And a sword shall pierce her soul’ – her fame [in that case] is among the martyrs and her holy body, by which light rose on the world, [rests] amid blessings. Or she may have remained alive, for God is not incapable of doing whatever he wills.” (Panarion 78-80)
Before St. Epiphanius, St. Hippolytus of Rome and St. Gregory the Wonderworker are two possible implicit witnesses to the Assumption. Both of them lived and died in the third century, and both of them called Mary “imperishable.” St. Hippolytus: “The Lord was without sin, made of imperishable wood, as regards His humanity; that is, of the virgin and the Holy Spirit inwardly, and outwardly of the word of God, like an ark overlaid with purest gold.” (Commentary on Psalm 22, as quoted in Haffner, P. The Mystery of Mary. Gracewing Publishers, p. 77) St. Gregory: “A bulwark of imperishable life hath the Holy Virgin become unto us, and a fountain of light to those who have faith in Christ; a sunrise of the reasonable light is she found to be.” (Homily on the Mother of God)
If these early Fathers meant the adjective “imperishable” literally, it is hard to imagine that they thought Mary died. This is not to say that the “didn’t die” theory has more support among the Church Fathers – it doesn’t, at least not according to my research – but I think it is quite incorrect to say that it is a modern theory that was invented around the 1700s. It is a very ancient theory, though with less support than the “did die” theory, and the Doctor of the Assumption (and possibly its earliest explicit witness among those Fathers whose writings we still have) names it as a distinct possibility alongside the theory that she died.
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truetofaith
Guest
Today is the feast of the Assumption, when the Blessed Mother was assumed (taken bodily) into heaven. No death!
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dmar198
Guest
The Assumption doesn’t mean she didn’t die. It means her body and soul were taken into heaven. Whether or not she died first has been left as an open question by the Magisterium, though most of the Church Fathers who discuss this lean toward the opinion that she did die shortly before her Assumption. St. John Damascene has a famous homily about this; Google St. John Damascene Assumption.
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brian_custer
Guest
i don’t believe for one second Mary suffered death
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dallas_r
Guest
I think the Church is silent about it. All we know is that Jesus did not permit his mother to decay here on earth, as it (death and decay of the body) is a factor of original sin which Blessed Virgin Mary is exempted of.
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STT
Guest
How could she possibly die if she was exempted from original sin?
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