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snowflake12345
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What is the link for the one edited by Louis Thuasne?
Did Pope Alexander VI actually say that "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!"?
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snowflake12345
Guest
To clarify guys - I know about the explanation concerning the playwright, and Leo X NOT having said this, but what about the contention that Pope Alexander said this and not Leo, in the document I posted? I tried using google translate to translate the Latin in the section on the Jubilee 1500 into English, but its hard to read…
Though i’m guessing that it is just more anti-Catholic mis-quoting, but this is my question?
Though i’m guessing that it is just more anti-Catholic mis-quoting, but this is my question?
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Oneofthewomen
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Ask the person who is is saying this for THEIR proof that is was Alexander VI.
If they don’t have any, then I think you can chalk it up as more anti-Catholic rhetoric.
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snowflake12345
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I can’t, its just a random post on a message board I came across when i was looking up the Leo X anti-catholic stuff. It was a message from years ago…
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PietroPaolo
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Then let it go. I could leave a random message here saying that Martin Luther once said, “the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church of Christ and I just made up that sola scriptura nonsense.” I could even leave an obscure and unreadable reference such as, Hans-Joachim Neumann: Luthers Leiden: Die Krankheitsgeschichte des Reformators, pg 87. If a Lutheran came across this message years from now, it would be rather silly for him to care. If the person claiming Alexander said that can’t back it up with a reasonably easy to find source, then I’d dismiss it.
Besides, even if Alexander said it, who cares? What would that even prove? That Alexander, in his private opinions, was a heretic, but that the Holy Spirit prevented him from teaching those errors as a part of his magisterium? What does that prove? Remember, popes are not infallible in their private opinions, only in their public teachings.
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snowflake12345
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Wise words and very true.
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prodigalson2011
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I can’t answer your question but I will say that I wouldn’t let it bother me even if he did.
It’s no secret the Alexander VI had a reputation for being one of the most corrupt popes in history (he was of the infamous Borgia family.) The truth is that, from time to time, God has allowed some very dishonest and morally repugnant people to sit in Peter’s chair.
And yet, the Church still stands.
It’s no secret the Alexander VI had a reputation for being one of the most corrupt popes in history (he was of the infamous Borgia family.) The truth is that, from time to time, God has allowed some very dishonest and morally repugnant people to sit in Peter’s chair.
And yet, the Church still stands.
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Pablopedro
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I think this is rather strong evidence that NO pope actually made this statement. It is entirely fabricated, even though it is an old fabrication.I found it…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=292557
From this site: thedevineevidence.com/skeptic_quotes.html
Quote:
So where did this quote originate? Skeptics claim Leo said this to a member of his entourage who later attributed
the quote to him. However, the quote has now been attributed to the 16th century satirist and playwright, John
Bale. John Bale joined the Protestant movement after becoming disenchanted with the corruption of the Catholic
church. He wrote many parodies in which he openly expressed his disdain of papal abuse. One of his satirical
works known as The Pageant of the Popes is the actual source of the quote in question (paraphrased in modern
English for the reader’s convenience):
“For on a time when a cardinal Bembus did move a question out of the Gospel, the Pope gave him a very
contemptuous answer saying: All ages can testify enough how profitable that fable of Christ hath been
to us and our company.” (Pageant of the Popes Page 179)
CONCLUSION: This quote is from a fictional 16th century work written as a parody. Presenting this as a
legitimate quote would be as absurd as attributing a line from a Shakespearian play to the real life character
whom an actor depicted.
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pacomius
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I do not know the source of the quote. but I prefer to take it as true. it makes so much sense to me and I believe it will serve as an excellent answer to anyone who calls the Incarnation of Christ a fable.
I’m definitely going to memorize it because it will serve among my responses against unproductive religion-inclined arguments.
How often the devil tries to turn God’s gifts to us into evil; and how more often God perfects the evils of the devil into blessings
I’m definitely going to memorize it because it will serve among my responses against unproductive religion-inclined arguments.
How often the devil tries to turn God’s gifts to us into evil; and how more often God perfects the evils of the devil into blessings
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snowflake12345
Guest
Very true, thank God!I can’t answer your question but I will say that I wouldn’t let it bother me even if he did.
It’s no secret the Alexander VI had a reputation for being one of the most corrupt popes in history (he was of the infamous Borgia family.) The truth is that, from time to time, God has allowed some very dishonest and morally repugnant people to sit in Peter’s chair.
And yet, the Church still stands.
I’m thinking this was at best, a mis-remembering on the part of the poster, or at worst just another Protestant attack.
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snowflake12345
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You prefer to take what as true? That Pope Alexander said that? Why would it make so much sense to you???
Do you mean the quote saying the the quote is an invention by Bale? I don’t understand your response at all, can you elaborate?
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snowflake12345
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Can we then from the above, safely and cautiously conclude then that this quote CANNOT be attributed to Pope Alexander, nor Pope Leo X, and is a satirical fabrication?I found it…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=292557
From this site: thedevineevidence.com/skeptic_quotes.html
Quote:
So where did this quote originate? Skeptics claim Leo said this to a member of his entourage who later attributed
the quote to him. However, the quote has now been attributed to the 16th century satirist and playwright, John
Bale. John Bale joined the Protestant movement after becoming disenchanted with the corruption of the Catholic
church. He wrote many parodies in which he openly expressed his disdain of papal abuse. One of his satirical
works known as The Pageant of the Popes is the actual source of the quote in question (paraphrased in modern
English for the reader’s convenience):
“For on a time when a cardinal Bembus did move a question out of the Gospel, the Pope gave him a very
contemptuous answer saying: All ages can testify enough how profitable that fable of Christ hath been
to us and our company.” (Pageant of the Popes Page 179)
CONCLUSION: This quote is from a fictional 16th century work written as a parody. Presenting this as a
legitimate quote would be as absurd as attributing a line from a Shakespearian play to the real life character
whom an actor depicted.
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pablope
Guest
Sorry…
I gave you the wrong link.Scroll to the bottom somewhat…onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/browse?type=lcsubc&key=Innocent%20VIII%2C%20Pope%2C%201432-1492&c=x
Here is, I think an autobiography, and I put the quote in the word search, and no matches come up.
archive.org/details/lifetimesofrodri00mathuoft
And this one has extracts from the Diary, but the quote, such an important one, does not show up:
archive.org/details/popealexandervih00burcuoft
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pacomius
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my earlier message was summarized. but reading it again might show you that the following statements are contained in it inherently.
-----if a person wants to make some pointless argument with me by saying the bible or gospel is a fable written by men (and I have encountered many who raise such arguments) I will simply ask him AND WHAT PROFIT HAS NOT THAT FABLE OF CHRIST BROUGHT US? and walk away.
I said I believe the quote. I guess your confusion comes from the word FABLE. I don’t hold my Christian faith as a fable. but for those who call it a fable YES I BELIEVE IN THE FABLE. and what profit has that fable not brought me? — as poor as I am, I have hope of eternal life. If not for that FABLE what would have become of me and my identity today?
@Snowflake
-----if a person wants to make some pointless argument with me by saying the bible or gospel is a fable written by men (and I have encountered many who raise such arguments) I will simply ask him AND WHAT PROFIT HAS NOT THAT FABLE OF CHRIST BROUGHT US? and walk away.
I said I believe the quote. I guess your confusion comes from the word FABLE. I don’t hold my Christian faith as a fable. but for those who call it a fable YES I BELIEVE IN THE FABLE. and what profit has that fable not brought me? — as poor as I am, I have hope of eternal life. If not for that FABLE what would have become of me and my identity today?
@Snowflake
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snowflake12345
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That’s nice and all, but the quote is a lie, it was never said, and it was a fabrication to attack the Catholic Church. I hold my faith as 100 per cent truth.
If people want to attack me, I don’t need to use the word fable in my defence thank you.
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