Did Satan really lie?

[JeanneH]

Hi All, I was asked this question by a JW and don’t have an answer. Hope some out there can offer one.
God told Eve not to eat from the tree in the Garden or she would die.
Satan told her that she would not die but become wise like God. If we believe in the immortal soul that lives after death did Satan really lie? I know that the wages for sin is death, physical death, so Eve did die physically. Where did her immortal soul go?
(hope this makes sense)
Thanks
JeanneH

 

[mlchance]

Yes, the serpent did lie. Read the exchange between the woman and the serpent carefully.

Serpent: “Did God really say you were not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?”

This is a lie disguised as a question.

Woman: “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden. But of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden God said, ‘You must not eat it, nor touch it, under pain of death.’”

This too is a lie of sorts. The woman did not accurately restate God’s command. Her version is, in fact, stricter than God’s actual command. See Genesis 2:16.

Serpent: “No! You will not die! God knows in fact that the day you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, knowing good from evil.”

This is a blatant lie. It attributes deceit to God.

So the woman looked at the fruit and saw that is edible and pleasing to the eye. She touched the fruit, which according to her version of God’s command should have caused instant death. Since her version of the command was wrong, she didn’t die, and then went on to assume that it was God who made the error.

So she ate the fruit, and then turned and gave some to her coward of a husband who was standing right there the entire time.

Then, contrary to the serpent’s claim, when their eyes were opened, they were not like gods. Instead, they were aware of their sin and afraid, and so they tried to hide from God.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[JeanneH]

Hi Mark, Thanks for the reply.

What about Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.

So Eve did eat of this tree and eventually did die. What of her immortal soul? Souls can’t die right?
JeanneH

 

[mlchance]

JeanneH:

What about Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.

My preferred translation (from the New Jerusalem): “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat; for, the day you of that, you are doomed to die.”

JeanneH:

So Eve did eat of this tree and eventually did die. What of her immortal soul? Souls can’t die right?

Yes, Eve did die. Correct, souls cannot die. As to the status of anyone’s immortal soul: That is not for me to say, and Scripture is utterly silent about Eve’s.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[JeanneH]

mlchance:

My preferred translation (from the New Jerusalem): “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat; for, the day you of that, you are doomed to die.”

Yes, Eve did die. Correct, souls cannot die. As to the status of anyone’s immortal soul: That is not for me to say, and Scripture is utterly silent about Eve’s.

– Mark L. Chance.

Thanks again Mark
But I can’t seem to come up with an explanation that will satisfy my friend the JW ( I am a Catholic). She tells me that if we believe that souls don’t die then Eve did not die. Physically, yes and if our essence is spiritual, not spiritually.
I know that I am batting my head against a stone wall here but I have limited knowledge about these things and am no match for her and I get frustrated that I can’t exlpain or even defend my befiefs. Thank you for your patience.
Jeanne H

 

[vluvski]

You should consider looking at Scott Hahn’s Old Testament study.

He explains that in the original language, it says literally “die die” or a less literal but more accurate translation “die the death.” God was not talking about physical death, but death of the soul due to sin. The serpent was talking about physical death, playing with words to decieve the woman.

Mark, I think you are a little mistaken when you state the soul cannot die. Yes and no- the immortal soul cannot cease to exist, so in that sense it cannot die. However, each time we commit mortal sin, our soul dies. Look in 1 John 5:16-17. By confessing and repenting of our sins, God restores us to eternal life, instead of eternal damnation.

Scott Hahn’s study then goes on to explain that God gave Adam and Eve a chance to repent of their sins before passing judgement. Instead they played the blame game. It is really quite fascinating.

He has a terrific website with some free instruction, do a google search for the saint ? institute and Scott Hahn and it should come up. I cannot remember which saint. sorry.

 

[vluvski]

Here’s the site.
salvationhistory.com/online/Beginner/WalkGen.cfm
His work is amazing if you want to be able to defend the faith to people with knowledge of the Bible. On the home page, I see he just started a new one to go along with his book, “The Lamb’s Supper”
I just saw him speak this weekend (2nd time) and he was phenomenal. I really hope you’ll check out the study, even though it can be long.

 

[BayCityRickL]

JeanneH:

Thanks again Mark
But I can’t seem to come up with an explanation that will satisfy my friend the JW ( I am a Catholic). She tells me that if we believe that souls don’t die then Eve did not die. Physically, yes and if our essence is spiritual, not spiritually.
I know that I am batting my head against a stone wall here but I have limited knowledge about these things and am no match for her and I get frustrated that I can’t exlpain or even defend my befiefs. Thank you for your patience.
Jeanne H

I didn’t read all the posts but I’m jumping in at this point.

Don’t you see the significance and symbolism of eternal punishment in the warning that Eve would die? That alienation from God is the best I can help you with. It is not the existence of the soul that it in question here, but eternal damnation.

This is not a complete answer, but it ought to satisfy you and your friend. If this doesn’t explain the matter, then you both need to see your respective pastors.