Did the early church fathers believe...?

[Bryan77]

Forgive me if this is in the wrong section. This seemed to me like the best place to ask.

Anyways, with all the arguments over what Catholics believe vs protestants. Such as Mary, The real presence, Confession, Purgatory…

Did the early church fathers believe this as well? Have we always prayed to Mary? Have we always confessed our sins to a priest? If not, when did it start?

I ask this, because when asked, a knowledgeable catholic can point to scripture to back up our claim. However, protestants will hold to the belief that we are misinterpreting scripture. so with this mindset, what we say along with which passage doesn’t have as much credibility as we would like. If what we believe really is true, then that means the early church fathers must have believed, and done this stuff.

So there’s my question. Did they believe this stuff? And and when did they start practicing this (confession for example) and Lastly, is there any reference where I can read about, and show people to prove that the early fathers believed, and acted accordingly? I believe that if we were to show that Christians have always believed this, that will prove that protestants are in fact separate from the one true church.

 

[Nate13]

In general I suggest just doing a google search for “Early Church Fathers on _____”

Here’s some links to get you started:

catholic.com/tracts/confession
staycatholic.com/ecf_baptism.htm
staycatholic.com/ecf_immaculate_conception.htm
catholic.com/tracts/mary-mother-of-god
therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/fathers.htm
catholic.com/tracts/the-real-presence
catholic.com/tracts/the-roots-of-purgatory

There is literally a gold mine of information available out there.
In terms of the Eucharist I suggest finding the story of how Ignatius of Antioch was put to death. Amazing story.

 

[Nate13]

Augustine has a lot on purgatory that just leaves little doubt:

Augustine

“There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended” (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

“But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death” (ibid., 172:2).

“Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment” (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

“That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).

“The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death” (ibid., 29:109).

 

[ryanoneil]

scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#tradition-III

scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#tradition-I

scripturecatholic.com/confession.html#tradition-I

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html#tradition-I

 

[ChrisB103]

An excellent resource is “The Fathers Know Best” by Jimmy Akin. It covers all the big topics (at least as far as I’m concerned). He gives brief explanations of the beliefs and then shows numerous quotes that show early belief in said doctrine. I own the book and I highly recommend it. In the meantime, search through the tracts at catholic.com. A lot of them have quotes from the Early Church Fathers. They’re an excellent resource for all Christians.

 

[Bryan77]

Thank you guys! I haven’t had a chance to read over all those links, but I’ll get cracking this weekend! I heard about that book. I’m going to have to check it out. After coming across a debate on how non Catholic Christians view the early church fathers (with the focus on tradition and the issue of sola scriptura) I wondered if people knew and understood what the early church believed (in reference to the many arguments against us) if that would hold more weight.

Regardless, I think it would be a good thing to look into anyways, just to further educate myself.

 

[Nate13]

Thank you guys! I haven’t had a chance to read over all those links, but I’ll get cracking this weekend! I heard about that book. I’m going to have to check it out. After coming across a debate on how non Catholic Christians view the early church fathers (with the focus on tradition and the issue of sola scriptura) I wondered if people knew and understood what the early church believed (in reference to the many arguments against us) if that would hold more weight.

Regardless, I think it would be a good thing to look into anyways, just to further educate myself.

Exactly, and sometimes the Early Church Fathers have great explanations for different teachings and have just the right way of saying it. There is no reason to try and reinvent a great explanation for some of these teachings, when you can give the explanation for believing it that they adhered to 1600+ years ago

 

[wisdomseeker]

Forgive me if this is in the wrong section. This seemed to me like the best place to ask.

Anyways, with all the arguments over what Catholics believe vs protestants. Such as Mary, The real presence, Confession, Purgatory…

Did the early church fathers believe this as well? Have we always prayed to Mary? Have we always confessed our sins to a priest? If not, when did it start?

I ask this, because when asked, a knowledgeable catholic can point to scripture to back up our claim. However, protestants will hold to the belief that we are misinterpreting scripture. so with this mindset, what we say along with which passage doesn’t have as much credibility as we would like. If what we believe really is true, then that means the early church fathers must have believed, and done this stuff.

So there’s my question. Did they believe this stuff? And and when did they start practicing this (confession for example) and Lastly, is there any reference where I can read about, and show people to prove that the early fathers believed, and acted accordingly? I believe that if we were to show that Christians have always believed this, that will prove that protestants are in fact separate from the one true church.

If you quote our Fathers, they will say you are misinterpreting them as well. Or if they can understand what our Fathers says, they will say that they dont have to believe what they say. they just ignores them and take them as just is an error as the CC.

 

[Nate13]

If you quote our Fathers, they will say you are misinterpreting them as well. Or if they can understand what our Fathers says, they will say that they dont have to believe what they say. they just ignores them and take them as just is an error as the CC.

True, but do you really believe seeing what people who lived right after Jesus had to say, and who may have known one of the apostles personally or someone the apostles taught directly doesn’t have an effect on people? I’m sorry but considering the number of issues on which a Protestant would disagree with the Early Church Fathers you could only conclude that they must believe the Early Church Fathers were stupid. All we can do is make someone aware of the words of the Early Church Fathers and trust that God will find a way to use those words to reach someone’s heart.